VAN SIZE IN RELATION TO WHEELBASE, SHOCKING PICTURE INCLUDED

 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: VAN SIZE IN RELATION TO WHEELBASE, SHOCKING PICTURE INCLUDED Reply with quote

Hello Friends,

There is really an issue here that needs to be dealt with, on maximum size of Bushtracker to be put behind a Toyota sized vehicle for SAFETY... And it is not what you might think... It is not about power.. It is an issue of the length of wheelbase for leverage at high speed, when you have to make a radical maneuver to avoid an accident or a spilled load or a Bullock or something... The wheelbase of the Landcruiser runs out of safety margin somewhere around 21' or 22'... Even my own 100 Series Landcruiser with the OME ARB upgraded Suspension and Nitrocharger Shocks (the little Missus truck), is up on its maximum limit with my 22' van and does not feel safe. There is a limit, and from 12 years of Bushtracker we know that practical limit is 21'.. It is just not safe if something happens to cause a radical move at 100 kph.. There is really not enough leverage to do it safely with the wheelbase of a Landcruiser, and that is where the F-250 or F-350 Ford, or Chev or Dodge trucks really shine. So, with your best interests in mind, I have a moral and ethical obligation to say that you are safer with a limit closer to 21' at a maximum, than 22'. Now we make exception to holders of Commercial Truck License and have and will go to 22'. But they have Professional Training, testing, and experience. They watch their mirrors more and don't allow traffic to build up too much behind them, they allow more distances, they are better trained in towing in varied conditions, and they have the safety techniques drilled into them. Please read in the Category TIPS ON SAFETY WHEN TOWING, two Topics there: "TREAT IT LIKE A PROFESSIONAL TRUCK DRIVER" and " 29 TIPS FOR SAFETY WHEN TOWING"..

A situation that gets out of control, is not what we want to hear about...
This is NOT A BUSHTRACKER and looks too big for the tow vehicle..




Now in saying that there is one more consideration. We have layouts and equipment from the marine industry that you will not see anywhere else. These are "Land Yachts" for their self-sufficiency and independence in lifestyle and travel, and here you will possibly get some ideas that you had not thought of before with regards to size. You can get a 22' feel of road van of another company, in only a 20' or 21' van in a Bushtracker. In summary, on a visit here you might find you can get it done in 21' without having to go larger. In general, I try and talk people out of going to 22' with Toyota sized vehicles, unless they are professional truck drivers or similar. I am trying to look after you for your own best interests, OK?

In summary we strongly recommend you do not go over 21' behind a Toyota sized vehicle for reasons of safety, legality, insurance, and your general health and well being.. Unless you are a Professional Truck Driver with a Medium Rigid License or higher. In a moment of absent mindedness, you might be able to swerve to avoid that accident in front of you; but you might not be able to recover. My advice is to tone it down now, at 21', rather that potentially live with a Lifetime of regrets later'.

Kind Regards from someone trying to look after you... One in fifty hate me for it, because it is not what they want to hear....But we do not need their business. We want to do the right thing by people, and Thank God that the 49 out of 50 appreciate our efforts...

Steven Gibbs, Director, Bushtracker...

aka lone Ranger cuz I travel with horses... Wink


Last edited by Bushtracker on Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tag000



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Midland
State:: WA
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steven
Now you are making me nervous, I have a 20ft BT on order and waiting on delivery of a V8TD LC76 series station wagon, thinking that this would be a tough suitable tow vehicle to get me safely in and out of some rough areas.
But, now after reading your comments on wheel base being a major part of on road towing safety, I believe I may have chosen the wrong vehicle.Embarassed
Any comments on the suitability of the LC76 to tow the 20ft'r would be greatly apreciated.

Mark

No worries Mark, that is the typical Landcruiser wheelbase, and 20' is the most common size behind Landcruiser. Upper limits are more like 21' and 22' is really pushing it... But 20' is mainstream and we would have a couple of hundred out there towing with the Landcruiser wheelbase. Just get the WDH or get one here, for a little added control.. Regards, stg
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Bushtracker
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State:: Queensland
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letter from Bushtracker Owner:

Hi Steve,
I read a few minutes ago your post on the BT website about your continuing concerns regarding the length of BT towed behind a Toyota vehicle. We have booked and deposited a BT for delivery in January 2009. You and I have exchanged quite a few Emails on this subject and you have expressed your concerns to me regarding BT's over 22Ft i.e. 23Ft or longer and I fully understand your concerns. The purpose of this Email is just to reconfirm that we are planning to purchase a 22Ft. BT and use our LC200 tow vehicle. I don't want to find out at a later date that you will not build a 22Ft. BT for us because we are planning to use our LC200. I would appreciate your confirmation that this latest posting does not indicate a change in your previous advice and that you will build us a 22Ft. BT.

Your clarification and confirmation that you will build a 22Ft. BT for us would be appreciated.
Regards
XXXXXX XXXXXX

Hello XXXXX,
Steven Gibbs here, Director, Bushtracker

Look XXXXX, I just try and take care of people with their own best interests in mind. 22' is fine, and we especially do not have a problem with it if you have a commercial truck license. Not a worry. For that matter, my own van is 22' and we are going to do some Real Time R&D with the new 200 Series TD I bought myself. The stance is wider and longer on the new 200 Series, and if it handles it well, we will up our recommendations from 21' to 22' behind the 200 Series.

We just earnestly try and do the right thing by people, for the longer term. I guess there are ones that realize that, and why we have sold 62 second vans to people in just the last three years since we started counting. Anyway, it is all about trying to do the right thing. We even have a few 100 Series towing 22'. We just want people to be aware and careful.. OK?

Kind Regards, and in your best interests, stg

Bushtracker
sales@bushtracker.com
85 Enterprise St
KUNDA PARK QLD 4556
P (07) 5476 5833
F (07) 5476 9253
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have worked on this persons layout from the previous Posting, and successfully reduced the size of their van back to a safer 21' layout...

We congratulate him on his sound thinking, and good judgement. It is not that we will NOT do it; it is just that we want to do the right thing by people with their own best interests in mind. 22' is just pushing the limits a bit too far with safety in mind, and if we are going to do it we would give preferrence to Professional Truck Licensed People, or adequately express our concerns and try to work around it... In this case we were able to adequately satisfy his 22' layout requirements in a 21' design...

Friends, it would have been easier to do what everyone else does, and just take his money for the larger van... But we try and deal ethically... One in Fifty would take great offense to our Coaching on safety or some other advice, and make it personal and burr up at me for giving them the bad news... With that attitude, if they are not reasonable we do not need their business... So if all else fails, and the Staff cannot deal with them, I get the job of sending them off somewhere else and they think I am the worst S.O.B. in the world... Laughing Laughing A guy has to be Famous for Something.. Laughing Laughing The SAVING GRACE is: The 49 out of 50 appreciate us taking the time to look after them, and we will run with them... Wink

Regards, Ranger....
Semper Fidelis
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Wanderer



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
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Location: Brisbane
State:: Queensland
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocking pictur is right. Anyone know what size van that was or what the 4x4 was. The car just looks to small for the caravan or is it just a very large van?

It any case it is a good lesson to be careful and mind safety lessons on this forum thanks to Bushtracker taking care.

Wanderer keeping it slow
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some of you that keep wanting to put a 22' behind a Landcruiser. I have one of the top well equipped Landcruisers, in my 100 Series, and here is what I would say is a minimum:

400 kg over stock, spring set all around.
OME ARB Nitrocharger Shocks.
1500 kg load rating tyres...
Air Bags inside the springs, deflated for a firm but exceptable ride around town and here shown with 30 lbs in them hooked up to a 22' Bushtracker.



Now, if you are that well equipped, AND you have a Professional Truck License (I do, and I know what I am talking about) then we can build you up to 22'. But here is what you need to consider: If you take up most of our Optional Equipment, that weighs say 400 kg, and with that on board a 22' can weigh 2800. This one in the picture has an additional couple of hundred on board with double air units, double heat units, dishwasher, roll out BBQ, 8 water tanks, one 120 litre drinking water in Stainless steel, and a lot more as and it weighed 3050 kg as the most over the top equipped one we have ever built. The point is, that a 22' at say 2800 kg is also leaning on your Lancruiser towing limits of 3500 kg when fully loaded.

This is just a lot of van behind a Landcruiser. Here look at it in this proportion:



Now look, I am doing this for your own good. Sure, we could just take your money and put you out there on the road, why should we care? Well that is not how I operate, and I am coaching you for your own health and well being. This is dangerously on the upper limit if you have to make a radical move to avoid an accident at 100kph on the highway. Anybody can make a radical swerve, but the recovery after it can be the problem. You are just lacking a little leverage and control with your steerage if thing get out of hand, simply because of the distance between your front and rear wheels not being a longer wheelbase length. Even with my own Cruiser being as well equipped as possible, it only felt safe at sort of 90-95 kph and I carry a Profession Truck License. I wrote all the Safety Tips in this Category, I travel Interstate with a Big Rig Horse Truck OK?

I often repeat myself a couple of different ways, to make sure that I do not lose anybody or leave anybody behind, and here is another angle on the subject:
You could feel a passing truck suck you around a little, the wheelbase of the Landcruiser is just not that much leverage... At 100 kph it does not feel safe, so I kept it down at the 90-95 for this Delivery. What we are talking about is the side to side movement in the relative short wheelbase (for this size of van) in the Landcruiser. It is all about the wheelbase length and the amount of leverage it gives you to control the van behind you. Trust me, you are better off with a maximum limit of around 21'. Now if you are a Profession Driver, willing to slow down, and have the safety habits ingrained into your driving... Well ok we will build to 22'.
But for the rest of you, we are trying to look after your well being..

Regards from the Ranger

Semper Fidelis
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Joshua
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigger the van,
the more emphasis should be put heavier load rating tyres for the tow vehicle. You cannot afford tyre failures if you are up on the upper towing capacity of your vehicle, at 21' or so with Toyota/ Nissan/ Disco 3 type vehicles. In all fairness, if you are replacing tyres, it would be a good idea to go up in Load Rating or Ply Numbers on your new tyre selection, with emphasis on side wall strength as well.

Many tyres are lost due to stone bruising, sidewall staking, and so on on back tracks. The damage is not always readily apparent after the immediate incident, and a lot of blow outs are later on the highway. A stone bruise can show up later as delamination and sudden blowout total failure, and this is much more serious on the tow vehicle itself than on the van.

And believe it or not, it has been my experience, that on a heavily loaded tow vehicle it is almost MORE hazardous when it happens on the rear wheels than even the front. The front you can over steer, but with a big van on the back a rear total tyre failure gives you a bit of washout sideways yaw that is scary..

Cheers
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vzagame



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
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Location: templestowe
State:: victoria
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi VIctor Zagame here I really have enjoyed reading up on amazing information re bushtracker and tow vehicles and a lot more. I am coming up on the 8th for factory visit and am really looking forward to it. I am looking at the 2012 diesel land cruiser and am concerned re going to a 21ft BT. I need triple bunks as I have a 6,4,3, yr old children. Can this be done in a 20ft BT?
Thanks for this great forum a credit to you .
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor,

While I will see you on the 8th, and we do not want to bog down the Forum with personal layout information as there is so much of it... If you don't want to have to make up beds out of lounges and such, then you are in for at least 20'. I did it with my three children in 20'.. Mind you done better in 21', but you have your weight restrictions to deal with. But if you don't need everything, Satellite Dish remote auto deploy, on and on, then 21' is fine. In 21': You might have to only fill a few of your tanks until you get to the last outpost, but you can do it..

Either way, it works, and I will show you my layout as well as other layouts for three kids as we have several styles to choose from. No worries..

ONE MORE THING: WELCOME TO THE FORUM, POST NUMBER 1

Kind regards, on the road with the Ranger...
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