WINCHES, TYPES, Advantages/disadvantages, and Service update

 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: WINCHES, TYPES, Advantages/disadvantages, and Service update Reply with quote

FIRST NOTE: WINCHES ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR MOST, THIS IS MORE FOR THE 4X4 ENTHUSIAST OR INTREPID EXPLORER OR FOSSICKER...

For the sake of credibility, I give you the reference point of my first hand experience. I have 40 years in extreme 4x4 use in extreme conditions hunting deer, elk, bear, in North America, game patrol overland in Africa, and three years in Central America, 20 years of travel in Australia, as well as the part time and full time living on yachts where many of the Bushtracker concepts come from.. Wink Now some background on the primary security of winches… Again, I will qualify myself so you take this with its due credibility: I have owned around a dozen winches of all three major kinds, on a variety of vehicles including two military vehicles. I currently own five vehicle mounted winches. I have the largest personal 4x4 in Australia, a Dual Cab Mack, with a 20,000 lb hydraulic out the front and a 12,000 lb warn out the back.. (Yea I know I'm crazy, Ha!) I also have a 100 Series Landcruiser, 100 with Warn 9000 lb and a 100 Series with a 10,000 lb Warn on the front. My last Ford had a 12,000 lb Warn on it. My new Ford has a Warn 15,000. UPDATE, my newest F-350 now in 2007 has the new Thermal protection 16,000 lb. I have an extreme amount of experience with 4x4 to the limits of possibility in hunting, prospecting, adventure, and exploration; so here is the voice of experience on the matter, and I digress for a moment for the benefit of those that do not fully understand the difference; then I will get into the proper priorities of choosing which is the best.. Wink

Winches: There are basically three types. PTO (Power Take Off), Hydraulic, and Electric PTO is about the strongest, as it will go to and exceed it's design limits, where hydraulic and electric often stall and do not go to their rated capacity for a number of hydraulic and electrical shortfalls.. PTO is shaft drive to a geared winch. It's strength however can be it's downfall. There is supposed to be a shear pin in the shaft and u-joint drive that is the weak point; However, I have broken two of them without the shear pin going! In 1973 I had a 1968 Ford F-250 Military with a PTO winch on the front, and with the front nose down in a bog pulling obliquely I sheared the weld on a u-joint yoke. Rolling Eyes In 1980, when a 48' yacht hit the beach and started to break up, we hired a "tank retriever"ťfrom the guy that supplies military vehicles to Hollywood and it was there in 5 hours to catch the next low tide! The hull was breaking up and sinking in the surf due to ballast, so we only had the low tide interval to salvage. This was not enough time to unbolt gear, we had to just rip it off with the tank retrievers enormous winch under the headlights of the local Four Wheel Drive Club cheering us on Rolling Eyes We did things like ripping out the engine right off mounts, with so much strain up and over the gunnel that when it broke loose it shot up right out of the wreck and landed with a thud on the sand.. Anyway, in the end we broke the bull gear on that winch.. So, PTO is great, but a bit expensive and very hard to route the shaft drive with u-joints from the PTO to the winch on modern vehicles. It is a daunting task to route the solid shaft drive without the high ground clearance of vehicles like Military, older Ford 4x4, Dodge Power Wagons, and such.. Sooo, yes it is strong, almost too strong for its own good, and very hard to put on modern vehicles... So, for practical reasons that PTO style is out on our modern Tow Vehicles for most of you.

The next is Hydraulic.. Now this is great, PTO or belt drive or gear drive, to run a hydraulic pump and flexible hoses to a hydraulic motor on basically the same winch as the PTO only hydraulic motor run instead of shaft drive. This however is the most expensive!.. And hard to do it right. The hydraulic reservoir on my Mack is large, as the pump moves 72 litres a minute at engine speed of 1000 rpm. On a smaller winch with modest power, the pump can still move 30-35 litres per minute, and it will heat up and smoke the oil if you do not have a big enough tank. This is probably the best winch, if you have room, and a very large pocket book. Mine will go until it actually stalls, pulling down dead trees and such to get their fall right with the chainsaw. Some of the good hydraulic winches are under-rated and will go til they stall without breaking anything.. Good, but expensive Shocked And there is the problem of a reasonable tank reservoir so the oil does not heat up too fast.. So, the best is the best, but just not practical in smaller vehicle... Trust me, scratch this idea as in the too hard and expensive basket...



Now for what is practical, most cost effective, and the Tip for its shortfall: Electric winches are cheap.. They will run until they stall, and seldom break. The will also run without the engine running, where the other two will not.. I have run mine under water, while salt water is a no-no, being electrolyte conductive on its own, I have run mine under fresh water nose down.. Maybe water did not get into the motor, but I have heard other similar reports. Anyway, the biggest short fall is heating up the motor… If you have a long pull, you are limited to a few minutes, as to run time on the motor before it heats up.. With the engine at 1000 rpm, the alternator will catch up charging the batteries while you change out winch points, but the motor on the winch takes forever to cool… So here is the Tip: About 100 km in the mountains S.E. of Springsure I was out on the back of a Station in 1997 trying to find a legendary place not seen in many years.. It was a jumble of rocks and caves that only a few old Horsemen knew about called the "Lost City"ť.. I had a 1.5 tonne off-road trailer full of supplies, on the back of a stretched 75 series Landcruiser with diff-locks, high lift suspension, LSD front diff, 12HT Turbo diesel, and the works.. Fearless! Very Happy Or so I thought.. Until I broke through the four inch dry surface crust of sand in the bottom of a little canyon, and sunk into the slosh almost quicksand of an underground river; and sunk up to the floorboards. It took many full length reaches of cable and snatch block to double the power of the 10,000 lb winch, and another recovery cable, set up many times with about 45 minutes of winching, to plough through the mud to firmer ground. Now the average run time to overheating is only about 5 minutes! Major Problem! SOLUTION: I put a 20 litre jerry can of water just inside the bull bar, leaning against the bonnet of the Cruiser, and with a spare small drain valve (like on the water tanks) stuck in the end of jiggle siphon, I had the motor cooler. I jiggle siphoned the water out of the jerry can, and then throttled down the valve so it only just let out a small stream of water onto the Warn winch motor body, dead in the middle so it ran all over the 12v motor. I stopped it after a while when re-setting the snatch blocks for another pull. This gave me the longest and hardest run I have ever heard of with a 12v winch. You might know the drill, shovel ramps, wood in the hole, ploughing mud deep enough to use the front tyres (while turning in gear in low range), they were only a use as rudders.. Ha! While some conservatives would critique this situation as foolish, it is the price to pay once in while for adventure and exploring of the kind that I do...Wink

On getting back home days later, I though surely the winch motor or gear drive was damaged or severely worn, as it all got hot even with the water cooling! So I removed it and shipped it to ARB in Brisbane. They disassembled and inspected it, and then put it back together and shipped it back to me, no parts, only the $132 shop time for inspection. The stretched Landcruiser was eventually retired to ten passenger Tourist buggy on Frazer Island, with the same winch still in place!!! Ha!



Snow, mud, sand, slosh, the practical cost effective answer is still electric. While hydraulic is superior, it is many times as expensive, and there is the tank problems.. There is a unit out there that runs off the power steering pump (which is hydraulic), but I have heard many poor performance reports, slow, lack of rated power, etc... I can't see how it could run to my demands, as the pump and volume requirements when you are really in the "poo" are quite large.. Soooo, the electric winch, when aided by the water cooling discovery of mine on the motor, is still the best option. On short pulls, for most people, no worries about cooling.. But one major shortfall has always been power (alternator catches up fast as you reset the gear) and overheating if you have accidentally driven onto a crust or swamp or broken through the dried crust of river gravel down into the slush.. Ha! So if you have to do a long pull, the water cooling seems to work where many have burned up winch motors or had to wait an hour for it to cool each time before another winching set, and I will do the water cooling again

Cheers, your Friend at Bushtracker...... ole Cowboy...


Last edited by Bushtracker on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:02 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update 11/2008,
The new Warn 16.5 Ti.... 16,500 lbs, Temperature Indicator warning light in the handpiece. I had one in the 2006 King Ranch, and now I have one again in this 2007 King Ranch F-350 4x4 Crew Cab LWB Dually.....

I have only seen two in Australia, both mine. I will suggest to you, that if you can afford it, it is probably the best. Mind you, at only about $300 more than the 15,000 lb Warn, I am not even sure it is expensive.

BUT: You have to make sure it fits. I think it is about the same size as the 15,000 lb. Ours took one Man, one day to mount. We built a cradle at Bushtracker that the winch bolted behind and to, that went from chassis rail to chassis rail and picked up existing bolt holes. It was a bit heavy, but we used a floor jack to push it up in place. You are welcome to have a peek at it, most days it will be infront of my office. The Temperature Indicator warning light, takes a lot of worry and stress out of big jobs with the winch.




The above picture was before cables were wrapped in conduit and routed, it is a finished installation now, with a cut off power switch under the bonnet.



Now there are some CHEAP Chinese knockoffs to the Warn. SuperWinch, and PowerWinch and so on. But I have this to say: You might not use it for years, and water leaking in, corrosion, bad solenoids that run it, cheaper armature, and so on? You will not really need it, UNTIL you REALLY NEED IT.. And after 30 years, I will say Warn will be there. I bought one from a Wrecking Yard, that had been used for years pulling apart cars. When I sold that Cruiser, it was still going. All the cheap Chinese knockoffs will work, but how they will stand up to NOT WORKING, and how they will stand up to EXTREMES OF WORKING, that is the test. Warn will, Warn has never let me down. Local 4x4 Club, local use, go the cheap route... Exploring waaaay out west or up north in remote regions? WARN is the way to go..

That is my advice. When I flew into the Rhodesian Escarpment 500 kms from real roads in East Africa with a Bush Pilot and landed in the dirt. It was comforting to me that the Landcruiser there to pick me up for Game Patrol, had a..... Yea, Warn Winch on the front. The further you go out into the Frontier, the more you want to rely on quality. The local boys can have their SupaWinch knock off, but I have never been let down by a Warn. If you can afford it, I would go that way. If money is a bit of a budget problem, then go the knock off types, they are certainly cheaper, and better them than nothing if you are going waaay out on your own..

Cheers from the Ranger...
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Brambo



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer_Jay,

In response to your post in the general forum regarding winches, I did a lot of research into winches when I fitted up a Lexus LX470 for some off-road trips with a local 4WD club, and yes you can buy cheap winches that may not stand up up to the hard work, to save some bucks, but the warn will be more reliable. I finally settled on a warn xp9.5, particularly after reading a review of tests done by 4WD Action Magazine (issue number 126). It has a 6HP motor where some of the cheaper brands have 4-5 HP motors, and a virtual unbreakable cable and hook.

I haven't had to use it yet, but if and when I do, I'll be damn glad I spent the extra bucks on a warn. Very Happy
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SMICK



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: which winch Reply with quote

10 years ago we had an OX hydraulic winch fitted to our 4.8l Patrol.We used the vehicle extensively to negotiate the most rugged tracks with a 4wd club. Many a time the winch got us home. 5 years ago we bought a 4.2l diesel Patrol [ to tow our Bushtracker ] and swapped all the gear from the 4.8l to the 4.2l including the OX winch. We have had to use it a few times and it still performs well.
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Homer_Jay



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the response Brambo,

I have decided to buy a Warn (after reading what "De Lone Ranger" had to say". I have now placed an order for an XD9000. I know it is the cheaper of the Warn winches in the 9000lb range, but I think it will serve me well, as i dont do any extreme 4WD, I just need some insurance as we usually travel alone.

One thing to remember with the Warn brand, is thet they have a good re-sale. Any of the cheaoer brands are worth nothing secondhand (I guess there is a reason for that!)
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Homer_Jay



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just thought I would give some information for anyone who may be interested.

I recently placed an order for a Warn XD9000 winch from a supplier in the USA cost was under $1200 AUST including all shipping and import costs.

It was delivered to my door in 7 working days. Looks like everything is there and undamaged. So far I am a happy chappy!

I was quoted over $2000 to buy the same winch local. I do try to support the local guy wherever possible (thats what keeps us all in a job) but when the local guy doesnt support his customers by passing on SOME of the savings of the strong Aus $ its gets a bit hard to swallow paying that much extra.


Anyway, I just thought I would pass on some info on my experience of buying direct from the USA.


Cheers
Aaron
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truK



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Aaron,

Do you still have the contact details of the company you bought the winch from in the US?

Im having trouble finding places that are prepared to ship to Australia.

Thanks,
Kurt
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ponce



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:49 am    Post subject: Buying from the US Reply with quote

If anybody is having trouble buying from the USA, then you may wish to visit the site of 'PriceUSA'. It is all explained on the site and quite legal. I have used the site a couple of times for items that the company would not ship to Aus. Good luck,
Ponce
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Homer_Jay



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The place I got mine from was called 4WD Hardware

web address is
http://www.4wd.com/jeep-winches.aspx

More than happy with their service.


Cheers
Aaron
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meofcourse



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:23 pm    Post subject: 24V winch 12V winch Reply with quote

Does anyone know the difference between a 24V and a 12V winch?
I mean what are the implications, and the requirements of each in terms of the batteries alternators and so forth?
thanks
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget it,

24v winches are for commercial trucks that run in 24 volt. Trying to make that work in a conventional 12v vehicle is scientifically possible, but it would cost more than the winch and be very complicated to do it right.

Cowboy...
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grumpyolephartz



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to agree with Cowboy, but in some cases with competition vehicles, they can use 24v on 12v winches just to speed up the motors. You can hear the motors screaming with the revs.

Not to be used in normal circumstances if you want relatively trouble free use.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Friends,
A Warn "ing" lesson for you from the "lone Ranger" at Bushtracker

Warn Winches STILL rule the roost... You can buy cheaper, but you cannot buy better in my practical experience.. Per the above Postings and experience.. Just last night I was trying to be a smart-a$$ and ran my tractor on too steep of a slope to do some slashing in the dark out on my horse property... After three weeks of rain, there was a washout I could not see in the tall grass, and I got into trouble with it slipping sideways onto the steep part... Shocked I left it and went to get help in the form of my Warn Winch..

Now, on my new F-450, my Warn winch went on second hand... I would not normally buy second hand, but this was 1/3 the cost, and had seen so little use the drum was not scored nor the cable damaged or scored, so while it was years old it was not "Old"... Anyway, long story short, rescued my tractor with a side pull from the F-450 in the High Beams, but the Warn would power in and not power out!! I rectified this in turning the dog handle over, to free spool hand pulling out the cable, and after the rescue by driving the truck forward to slacken the cable to unhook it. However, it was not right, so off it came today at Bushtracker after morning tea.

So, maybe at least a 5 year old winch, showing no real wear, but I had not ever Serviced it had I.... Mine is an Industrial 12, not the normal civilian Warn winch from ARB say, but the priciple is the same. Mine is just more of a tilt tray, wrecking yard, professional heavier duty model, and while yours will look slightly different there is something to be learned here.. Anyway, planetary gear were right, all grease ok, yours will look similar on the gear head end..



That was all moly high pressure grease, all ok, no moisture, so we dug down deeper: Ha! Brake control was a bit rusted...And dry, no grease.



On the brake (yours will be different, this is a heavy duty one) the brake inside the spool had no grease on the shaft controls, and maybe a light spray, but it would not unlock to power out. It was a simple jam up of rusted dogs on the shaft. Now you can Google a Service Manual to do yours, or send it off, but there is a lesson here:

On new ones, no worries, a couple of years old, no worries. But out a few years, and you need to pull it apart and grease it up before it lets you down. Per the Post above, the last one I sent away maybe ten years ago was $132 at ARB.. Get a price but figure maybe $250-$300 now? Have them price a full Service. Or, Google the break down pictures and directions for your model, and if you are a fair Mechanic you could do it yourself.. (Send it off if not on a budget)...

Anyway, if you plan on pulling your Warn winch off to put on the next vehicle, or keep your tow vehicle extra years? Service the winch.. Water is a penatrating fluid and moisture can vent in, like all things better to Service it say every few years than have it let you down when in need. You might only need it once a year, but when you do you will REALLY NEEED IT!!!

Another Tip from the lone Ranger


Last edited by Bushtracker on Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, a good Warn winch wins out for a number of reasons. The Tirfor is slow and back breaking, not to mention clunky to handle and store....

It is only money, and a good Warn Winch wins out for just about everything.
You can get them cheaper from some U.S. sources, I bought the Commercial Warn 12,000 Industrial, bigger brakes and motor, for $1000 hardly used. Keep your eyes open and you can get a good second hand one now and then that is removed from the tow vehicle for resale of the vehicle. Or buy it new and keep it serviced and move it from vehicle to vehicle.

A Warn Winch with the water dribbling on the motor, for several resets or a snatch block plowing muck, and got me through more than 50 metres of quicksand, in maybe an hour. A Tirfor would have been an exhausting all day project.. At best. Another time the Warn saved me from an incoming tide where a Tirfor would have lost the vehicle. A warn first, if you were towing with a truck with high GVM and in love with the Tirfor, maybe a second place, but really a Warn First. That is my experience here, Canada, America, even Africa, in 4x4 Warn-Warn and Warn...

Just leave the engine running, and I have had the alternator charge the batteries while I reset a pull with a Snatch Block three times over 45 minutes... There was at least a ten minute rest between pulls, doubling my pull with the snatch block as I reset, and those ten minutes each time were well spent charging the batteries. With a jiggle siphon and a small valve restricting the flow, I ran a jerry can of water on the bonnet and bullbar running water on the motor to cool it down.. Over 45 minutes, three big pulls of a minute or two, ten minute resets, the Warn pulled the rig through a large patch of quicksand with only the front tyres steering in the muck like rudders... heh he Shocked

My two cents worth, Cowboy


Last edited by Bushtracker on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Podargus



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had an OX hydraulic winch in a 2001 Landcruiser Troopie for many years. It is a very powerful winch but slow.Still,much quicker than waiting for a tow.

I had a small radiator mounted on the bull bar for oil cooling.The winch runs on the power steering circuit and the oil can get hot on a long haul.

No reliability problems in the 9 years or so I have had it.When winching other objects like fallen trees etc this winch is capable of dragging 3 tons of Toyota with all wheels locked up. That's when you need a strap to some immovable object at the rear of the vehicle.
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Ambush



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always appreciate Steve's wonderfully informative posts!

Back in 2000-01, I bought the Warn 15,000 lb. winch just when it came out, and mounted it in front of my F-550. I had to wait for Warn to redesign their Hidden Kit for the 15,000 lb.. They changed the steel on the mounting kit to be made from HSLA steel, because the 15,000 lb. actually bent the mild steel of their mounting kit that was formerly only validated for their 12,000 lb. winch.

The 16.5 Ti winch hadn't been invented yet, else I probably would have gone for that.

I haven't had to use my winch much... but it has come in handy from time to time. Once, a young man climbed up a hill from a lake, asking for help for his friend, who needed to be pulled out of the lake.

Now, this friend had taken (without permission!!!) his father's restored antique 1950 something Ford pickup truck, and had backed it down the boat ramp to launch his jet ski (like a motorcycle on water). We already know the guy was dumb for not asking his father's permission first... but he turned out to be even dumber....

He apparantly had backed the classic Ford pickup truck bed deep into the water, so he could "float" the jetski in the bed of the truck out onto the lake. Well, the lake overtook the antique pickup, and as water filled in the truck, it became heavier, and he started sinking in.

Well, I had my Warn... so I anchored my F-550 on the ramp and ran the cable out to him. Time was of the essence, as the kid was sinking. He was actually CRYING at the driver's seat, like a sea captain helplessly at the helm going down with his ship!

I had to submerge my head under water to find a solid place to hook to... about the only thing above water at this point was the greenhouse of the truck's rounded cab.

I kept my diesel engine running, with dual alternators spinning high from my Ford Auxiliary Idle Control box, that automatically adjusts the RPM to maintain 14.2 amps charging current.

The 15,000 lb. winch comes with 7/16" wire rope... a bit over 11mm in diameter. As I reeled the truck in, driver, jetski and all... it was comical to watch the water POURING out of the cab... like a giant fish tank whose sides had broken. I've always wondered how he fared with his father after he got home from that little incident!

So far, I've never had to recover my own rig from being stuck, so every once in a while I question why I have this winch. However, there is a not so obvious benefit when it comes to TOWING a Bushtracker (or RV, as we call them in the USA).

If conventionally towing (we call it bumper pull, even though a receiver hitch platform is typically used, not a bumper), often times a weight distribution system is needed (usually spring bars) to transfer tongue weight forward to the front axle of the truck. Without the weight transfer, as a heavy tongue weight (say around 400-500kg) is applied behind the rear axle, the normal truck weight on the front axle is LIFTED. Like a teetertoter.

Since the front axle is also the STEERING axle, and effective steering control requires a decent tire to road surface CONTACT PATCH, with weight applied for sufficent grip and friction at that contact patch... unloading the front axle of vehicle weight by biasing the teetertoter rearward is not such a good idea.

With a heavy duty rear spring pack like Steve's F-450, and moreso my F-550, a heavy tongue on the rear is stays well within the rear gross axle weight ratings. However, due to the trailer tongue loading point being a meter and a half aft of the centerline of the rear axle, there is still some teetertoter effect (even with a crew cab long wheelbase) that unloads some vehicle weight off of the front axle.

SO... having a winch on the front, even if it is old, rusty, with dried up lubricant... still has one benefit for conventional towing: FRONT BALLAST WEIGHT. Of course, you Aussies with your big bull bar bumpers typically always have front ballast weight, but that isn't as common up this way.

Therefore, even though my winch hasn't been unspooled as often as it should have been to justify it's cost, it has worked every single day of it's installed life serving as a front ballast, and making the ride in a stiffly sprung F-550 a bit more comfortable. It's probably a bit more useful to have a winch up front for that task, rather than tractor weights that can't do much else. The Warn 15K Lb. winch pulls it's own weight in that department, along with 1.5 times the loaded weight of my F-550.

I agree that the best part of having an electric winch is that the vehicle engine does not have to be running. Yet, every time I've used the winch, I always run the engine to keep from depleting the batteries. Kind of funny, eh?
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Bow & Nan



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up in the Victorian high country I used my Warn 10,000 to winch the 200 series 50m up a steep wet rocky track to safe ground. If I didn't have the winch I would still be there.

In my younger days we used a Tirfor to repair conveyor belts. I never want to see another Tirfor again.
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Theywent Thataway



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fellas, I am not feminist by any means....BUT, if you and the Mrs are travelling solo it is a VERY good idea to train HER how to use (both ends of) the winch too. There have been times when our vehicle has been in such precarious positions that there was no way that the driver (yes...usually Dave) could have - or for that matter should have - gotten out of the drivers seat. Then its up to the passenger to disengage, set, run and connect the cables etc.

Run the winch in and out every couple of months - together - for no reason just to keep it in working order, and for YOU to know how (that?) it works etc etc. If you've not used the winch yourself, do a trial run at least once.

Maz.
Dave's Winch Wench.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Friends,
A winch update:

As many of you would know, a decade ago I had a 20,000 lb hydraulic on my Mack 4x4 horse truck... I sold it because with only a 6 speed manual, it wore me out to drive it on long hauls. It just did not have enough gears to do the hills well towing..

I have now updated with the latest technology, to a 12 speed Road Ranger that has an automatic shifter selection with air actuated controls, so it is 12 speed auto or manual on the column... Cool, very cool to drive, this new MAN German built 4x4.. Same size as the Mack, but newer technology. I held the Mack for 5 years, I may just keep this one.

Now, updated technology, updated winch. I have gone back to WARN, again. This is not finished, but this is the new tilt tray winch, 24 volt, 18,000 lb WARN Industrial.. Here it is dry fit, about 80% finished, with the gear on it like winch extension cable I want to carry.. Not finished, not painted, just a dry fit..



Now yes it is only 18,000 lb, not big for such a large horse truck with a big gooseneck horsefloat on the back, but look what is mounted in the front on the 20 Ton Ringfeder trailer pin:



That is about a 20 ton "Snatch Block", so my winch with a pull out to the block and back to the RingFeder pin, doubles from 18,000 lb to 36,000 lb. That is enough.. Wink The big cable wrap around, is a 3/4" winch extension cable 25M long, and I have another 25M... The snatch block is to fasten warn cable through and back to my MAN truck to double the pull. The WARN will have to be cooled every 30 sec to minute, or use that water pouring on the winch motor I have talked about earlier in this Topic... Inexpensive, lighter, no hydraulics, WARN is still the King..

(I got stuck in a week of rained out horse paddock just this morning, yes it will come in handy... heh he..)

Kind regards, stg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Warn 18,000 was pulled off, all the chassis mounts and brackets up to the main housing primed and painted, and then mounted back up..

I have clad the painted surfaces with our alloy body armour, to catch the wear from the extra gear riding on it. The huge swivel snatch block is rigging rated at 8 ton, but that is RIGGING lifting rating that has to be 4 times that to breaking strength at 40 ton. SWL (save working load) at 1/2 breaking strength would be 20 ton, and it will never see that...



I have a 20 ton pin built into the chassis, on top of the winch, for moving around Ringfeder hitched trailers and dollys, and you can anchor the winch cable back to that. Friends the beauty of a snatch block, is the double of the winching power. For instance in Landcruiser sizes: A 10 ton pulling winch, with two wraps of cable on the drum, might only be 6 ton. But out through a snatch block and back to the tow vehicle doubles that pull. You run a protective strap around a tree with a tree hugging wide anchor strap so it does not ring bark the tree killing, and anchor your snatch block there or extend it down with a winch extension cable like I have in double capacity 3/4" cable. Do this and you can double the available pulling power of your existing winch.

Here is to NOT HAVING to use it, but nice to have if you need it... Wink

On the Road with the Ranger.... "Land Yacht"
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quote I have always remembered from Christian Slater in the excellent 1993 film 'True Romance' (sort of misleading title).

"It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it."

He was referring to a gun but I'm sure it applies to winches too. Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But just check they are working. Hadn't used mine for 12 months and did a check. Good job I wasn't stuck fast somewhere and needing it. Next stop, auto electrician for a check up.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again Friends,

After what 25 years or more with Warn, I have done it again. Here is the latest, the new 12,000 lb fan cooled motor, with wireless manual and plug in remote both. Note, you can mount the "Control Head" out of sight behind the ARB Bullbar... As you can see from the pictures, it is not up on top blocking airflow to the radiator. This is a very neat and clean installation on my Sahara R&D vehicle...



You can see the control head down inside the Bullbar, with a built in hand access to switch from a wireless remote control to the manual control units to run it...



This is the little remote control, so you can easily winch from a safe spot or while driving out of the bog to assist the winch...



Real time testing for you, Realtime R&D for your benefit, and here are the results on the road with the Ranger...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve

Is the model you installed the Magnum 12K and now that it has been installed for 12 months are you satisfied with its performance?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello!

In all fairness, I have not used this one enough to tell you much... The wireless remote is just another toy, you are not reliant on it because it also has the wired up remote they all have. The normal wired up one is long enough to reach to the cab so you can drive/steer while using the winch..

The 12,000 is not the issue, you can use a snatch block and double that to 24,000. You can pull down trees with that if you are anchored to a larger one.. Laughing Laughing Cool

The key issue is this: We will not likely really need a winch more than 1-2-3 times a year. But when we really need it, WE REALLY NEED IT.. Laughing
The key issue is that I have learned not to be cheap with important gear and WARN is the key issue. It will be there when you need it, the Chinese and Indian copies may or may not be there and all corroded up. I will stick with WARN winches, now for about 30 years steady proven to be the best..

Even in Africa on Game Patrol, 500 miles from the nearest help, when your very LIFE could be at stake, WARN was on the front... Wink

On the road with the Ranger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve

Can you access the unit for annual servicing without the need to remove the bullbar.

Also do you have any views on steel versus synthetic cable.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[i]Hello Intrepid,
I think that was the name of a British Warship from my yachting days "Intrepid" from memory, could be wrong but.. Anyway, I had that unit mounted with the control box below the Bullbar, contrary to the easy way of doing it with it mounted on top..

Now, "annual servicing" honestly if you do that you will wear the unit out from disassembly all the time... Laughing Laughing Laughing I mean if you leave it nose down in a river for a half a day stuck, maybe, but the one I show here was a second hand unit that had not been serviced in three vehicles and was at least 5 years old.. Probably closer to 8 years old, had obviously been in the water, and had never been torn down. Further: It was a commercial tilt tray sort of winch, that had an automatic mechanical fail safe brake that locked up. You want to run it every year, but if it stays out of the water and out of the salt water, I would not service it for the first couple 2-3 years.

Read again the preventative service job I did not one years ago, the original Post in this Thread. That second hand WARN had been on a hunting vehicle, then worked tearing apart cars in a wrecking yard, then I overheated so badly repeatedly on long pulls caught in quicksand. I dribbled water out of a jerry can with a siphon valve and a ball valve, dribble of water on the motor to cool it. That one was torn down for a service and put back together, and did not need a service even then.

We cannot remember if you have to drop the Bullbar to drop the winch. Most of mine I built I modified the mounting to drop them out the bottom. ARB would be the ones to call on that to see if it is possible. They would have mounted it on the bulbar first, just because it was easier and a one man job to mount up..

With a WARN, you need to give it a good run every 6 months to a year, but I would not worry about a full disassembly for a few years from new. The one I show in this post on a full tear down to see why the brake locked on, was second hand, abused, and on its third vehicle. Further it was a full mechanical brake that just stuck on, the normal WARN is a bit different and not as likely to have been a problem. You may be worrying too much over this. I would not worry about servicing that WARN until you pulled it off to put it on the next vehicle...

Now on steel vrs synthetic cable: Look, I am old school. I want to see the cable get old. I mean when it starts to fray get fish hooks, then I know it is time to replace it. That is probably a ten year life with our kind of occasional use, unless you are running it in salt water or working it a lot and very hard. Now on synthetic, this is a weight savings issue alone, and further I do not know how it is wearing or breaking down in the U.V. of sunlight. I would rather carry the 20 kg or so extra of cable I can judge the strength of.. I really know I am old school, but no I do not care for the synthetics of unknown strength that you will have to replace.

Kind regards and on the road with the Ranger
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