TOYOTA POWER CHIP EVIDENCE OF INCREASED FUEL ECONOMY??

 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: TOYOTA POWER CHIP EVIDENCE OF INCREASED FUEL ECONOMY?? Reply with quote

PRIVATE EMAIL DISCLOSURE REPRINT HERE: A MAJOR IMPROVEMENT IN FUEL ECONOMY REPORTED… Hello all of you Future Owners, that are not in the Schedule yet or not Owners yet, and so cannot get into the Owners Forum…. The Ranger here... And I told you that if there was anything important on the Private Owners Forum that you should know about, I would put it here…. So you are not "Missing Out" as some worried. Well here are bits and pieces of a Thread on the Owners Forum, and Private Email to me, and I got permission from the Party to reprint his Posting as well as his Private Email and confirmations…. "A Major Breakthrough for 100 Series TD Landcruiser on Towing Fuel Economy"

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Hi Ranger,

I have been reading some terrible figures on fuel economy but I will share some information with you. I had a computer chip fitted by Diesel Care in Toowoomba and they used my vehicle to test the result. The chip is new to Australia but is used extensively in Europe on an enormous number of vehicles over a lot of years. We found that the torque went up by about 37% and the power by about 30% and as you can imagine this made an incredible difference to performance. We had to muck around with the settings (which they can do with a Dynometer and a lap top computer) so that the chip came in at a low rev. The Cruiser has a flat torque curve from about 1600 revs through to 2700 revs and it cruised at about 1950 revs at 100 KPH so there is no point in having the chip start to perform at say 2400 revs as you do not use revs that high unless you drive at Sandown Park. We set it after testing to come in about 1650 revs and the difference was amazing.

The bottom line is that the vehicle now does 9.8 litres/100 kilometres on the open road and 10.8 litres/100 kilometres around town. The consumption when towing the BT empty is 13 litres/100 kilometres. The reason for the low consumption is two fold. Reason one is that I do not have a heavy foot but I do drive at the highway speeds without the van - say 105 to 110 kilometres/hour and the second reason is that I tow the van at 90-95 kilometres per hour in 4th gear. I found that 5th gear was working the gear box too hard and the fuel consumption was increased by 2.5 litres per 100 kilometres.

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Hello Mike,
And all Boggers, Lone Ranger here, THIS REPORT IS OUTSTANDING AND WAY ABOVE THE HUNDREDS OF FIGURES FOR THE TD CRUISER TOWING...

Mike, your fuel economy is absolutely outstanding, and your Chip is doing wonders.... Towing at 13 litres per 100k is 7.69 km per litre.... The Factor to calculate miles per gallon is Km per litre X 2.83...... Using this formulae, your mileage towing your Bushtracker is 21.76 miles per gallon?????

You either hold the record for a Turbo Cruiser towing, or I have done some goof... Please either review your figures, or mine.... Or else everyone with a TD Cruiser needs to stand up and notice, because your Fuel economy is the best ever reported with a larger van....

There must be more to this, or it is early and I am doing some blue, or you had a heck of a tailwind, something is highly irregular or EVERYONE WITH A TD CRUISER SHOULD LINE UP FOR THIS CHIP......!!!! This is the best report ever reported to me on fuel economy for the TD Cruiser....

Kind Regards from da Ranger, tryin to look after everyone.....

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Hello Ranger,

Yes, the fuel economy is outstanding as you say but the figures are accurate. The fuel consumption whilst towing was when I towed the van empty from your factory to Toowoomba so whilst I may have had a tail wind (and I don't recall having one) I also went up 2,300 feet in altitude as the last time I looked you lived at sea level and I lived on mountain!!! As an example of consumption with the vehicle not towing and with only me in it, I went to Brisbane from Toowoomba and return last week. I filled up at "Rustys" roadhouse half way to Brisbane then drove on to Brisbane to the Wesley Hospital on Coronation Drive then I returned to Toowoomba. I did 198 km and used 19.8 litres of fuel. This was after some city driving and climbing back up the range to Toowoomba. I drove at 105 to 110 km/hr on the open road so you figure the figures and see if there is a mistake.

Since then I have crossed checked the fuel usage on 4 other occasions and I keep getting the same results. I find the figures amazing as well but the installer of the chip at Diesel Care explains it this way - fuel usage is based on the amount of distance that the pump is opened and with the extra power generated by the chip the pump is barely opened. I can feel that with the vehicle when I am driving as my foot is barely pressing the accelerator when cruising and the vehicle feels like it has a large V8 motor in it. Remember that the chip is set to come in to maximum power at 1650 revs so I am getting the maximum increase early. ALSO I DO NOT HAVE A BIG FOOT AS I DO NOT WANT TO BE THE FIRST ONE TO THE NEXT SET OF LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will keep you posted on the results of trips as they occur. You may even have to get rid of the Mack as a result?????
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Mike
Yea Mike, I will be keeping the Mack 4x4 Horsetruck, until I can get a tonne of fuel, a tonne of tools, a tonne of water, a tonne of tack, and five horses into a Turbo Landcruiser…. And of course still tow my 22’ Bushtracker loaded up with 8 tanks of water…. Ha!
In the words of ‚ÄúBig Jake‚Ä̂Ķ. John Wayne: ‚ÄúThat ‚Äėll be the day‚Ķ.‚ÄĚ

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Peter,
the "Lone Ranger" here,

Look, the first reply in your thread is about the average of the 100-200 reports back to me.... Sort of the 12-13-14 miles per gallon as a middle ground average..
OldPerc has responded with about 5km per litre X 2.83 = 14.15 Miles per gallon.. Others might get a little less, but maybe with heavier foots and bigger hurry....

That is pretty good.... But read the previous Posting from Michael on "Air Suspension, Tyre Pressures, and Fuel Usage."... He has reported a CHIP and I mean private email confirms the CHIP IS IT !! For fuel economy on a TD Cruiser... He holds the record with this chip added on, at nearly 20 miles per gallon... That is fantastic!!!! I would pursue this if I were you...

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Highfields posted this followup

There are a number of these types of chips on the market but the beauty of the one which I put on is that it seemed to create greater power, it can be turned off and on when on the go and can be geared to come in at less revs. All of these points are important and the price is the same for all units. As far as I know, Diesel Care in Toowoomba (and branches) is the sole importer. I was very impressed with the service which they gave me even to the point of flying out from Europe a rep of the manufacturer to oversee the final installation of my unit.

I can only stress that it is important to make sure that the unit comes on to full thrust at about 1600 to 1700 revs (assuming that you have a 100 series Turbo Diesel). All of the installers do not take into consideration the cruising revs of the vehicle and tend to concentrate on bringing in the maximum thrust too high in the rev range when it not usable unless you are driving at 150 kph in overdrive or are climbing up a steep hill or suchlike. In fact, you need it to come in earlier and to remain in so that the momentum is not lost.

You are right that it helps to stop gear hunting but I find that with automatic it is better to drive in 4th and you will find that it remains in that gear for most of the time and rarely drops down unless under extreme load.

Mike

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Regards from the Ranger... Out Scouting the trail for a better way... Always...

Semper Fidelis
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Canuck1055



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

Have you (or anybody else) had a look at the diesel-LPG conversions for added power and fuel economy yet?

I've looked at www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au and the power/torque curves look very interesting. Looks like a 4.2l Patrol gets converted to a pretty reasonable towing option with this conversion.

Any comments? Thanx.

RobT
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: LOOKED INTO IT IN THE AMERICAN RESEARCH MARKET.... Reply with quote

Hello Rob....
I looked into it, far enough to see one large truck conversion here, and get comments on American Performance Forums in the U.S. And a response from some diesel engine rebuild shops...

My conclusion? Bad on the engines, hard on pistons, wrist pins and rods, and some say valve train potential problems. I cannot remember the specifics but there was something in the pre-ignition that harms engines. Now I do not know if this is true, and it is not true for petrol engines. But modern high compression diesels running 20 times higher compression?? Now I cannot remember the specifics and would have to look up the Postings on the Forums in the U.S. but I seem to remember piston and ring problems, and greatly shorted engine life that turned me right off...

I had one engine rebuild shop tell me of their horror stories. Their reasoning is that shortened life on engines is why the technology has been out for 20 years, but not adopted widely by the diesel market. Petrol yes, diesel no. I mean if it was that great, ALL THE TRUCKING MOBS IN AUSTRALIA WOULD DO IT..!! But instead it is fairly rare.

I satisfied myself, that it harmed the engines, and decided not to pursue it further. You may have an application where it does not, but from my research it was not worth the risk. A clapped out old farm truck Toyota Ute, maybe... A new prize vehicle with a $15,000 or $20,000 engine..? Don't think so.

Regards, Ranger...
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Canuck1055



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ranger and thanx for the reply. But I'm wondering if we're talking about the same thing? This conversion is not replacing diesel with LPG like with petrol LPG conversions. This conversion uses a small amount of LPG that is injected along with the diesel to improve the combustion. Diesel only burns about 80% or so of the fuel in the cylinder and injecting a small amount of LPG acts as a catalyst and close to 100% of the diesel is then ignited. So no more black smoke from unburnt diesel as well. But main benefits are much more power and better fuel economy.

I understand the engine damage issues with trying to run diesel engines on LPG, way too hot. I think that is what you have referred to. But this is different. Have you looked at the website?

RobT
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Rob, I know what you are talking about and did a full investigation on it about 12-18 months ago... From memory now, and this may not be entirely accurate, but from memory it was in the range of 20-25% LPG injection and it improved torque and fuel economy by about the same percentage...

The problem from memory was something to do with the pre-ignition of the propane cause extra stress on piston and rings. The LPG goes off at an earlier timing or something.. I can't quite remember.. If you want I will go back and search the Forum I did work on and find the actual Technicians comments... After the National Reining Championships are over in August, before you spend any real money on this LPG injection, I will look up the Engineers reports if you like...

Look, I was certainly interested myself until told the downside by the engine builders. They convinced me to drop it... But here is a relative question for you.. Why would you want to bother or risk it. We have Nissan 4.2 and Toyotas happily towing with the stock Turbo engine.. Buy a good second hand one and be done with it... Not sure I would bother unless you had a really big job to do. We have hundreds towing with the Nissan and Tojo 4 litres up to 21' and a couple at 22', so why bother at all? So you are little slow on the big hills, so what...? Cool

Cheers Rob...
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Canuck1055



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, thanks Steve for confirming we're on the same page. I'll do some more homework & if you could point me in the right direction to get an alternative analysis, that would be great, when you get a chance. No rush.

I was interested in the greatly improved torque values of the 4.2L Patrol at lower revs for cruising. That would give pretty good fuel economy. Also keeps the oil alot cleaner, and that can't be bad in the long run.

I'll post the results of my investigations into the pre-ignition issue and possible damage, if I come up with anything interesting.

Happy trails....
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Canuck1055



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I spent a bit of time researching this. There is another website you should look at for up to date info on diesel-gas conversions, see

www.dieselgas.com.au

There is more good info here and lots more data on vehicles, even an F250 with the 7.3 L donk.

Spoke to Brad at length about the mechanical damage issue, very knowledgable and helpful guy. In the past there were issues with preignition in diesels due to wrong gas mixtures and poor control of gas volume delivered depending on load which caused preignition which could lead to damage. It is not a problem with their system as the gas delivery is controlled reliably by microprocessor and it monitors exhaust temperature as well. The gas will automaticallt switch off if exhaust temp gets too high. I gathered there were several mechanisms that are employed to eliminate the preignition issue. They have many installations that have been around for a long while and customer references are available.

In summary, this seems to be up to date info, and sounds like it's worth checking out.

RobT
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Max and Beth



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Fuel economy 100 series Reply with quote

We have just brought a 2005 turbo diesel GXL and are picking up our 20' van in January. On bringing the cruiser back to Townsville from Brisbane we achieved 10 Kms per litre. I have been reasding the forum with interest especialy the bits on power chips. I decided to go to the Hiclone website and wrote to them. They sent a very good reply about fitting the Hiclones and also their chip, as they say the more gear you add you will eventually achieve nothing more as the existing cdu cannot cope. Has anyone had any dealings with the hiclone. A work mate told me he put one in his commodore and went from 10 Kms litre to 8.4 which is pretty good.
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Max and Beth



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Hiclone Reply with quote

A slight boo boo. My workmates fuel economy went to 8.4 litre per 100 Kms.
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Brambo



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking for a performance modification to suit the LC100 V8 petrol motor. Exhaust and chip is mainly what I'm after, has anyone had any experience in this field, or know of where in Melbourne or Geelong I might start my research. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brambo,
Look, you can add headers and a larger free flow exhaust and go the extreme for about 5% gain, but you are still going to be in a major losing position towing. V-8 Cruisers towing big, get as low as 3-3.5 kms per litre. To put that in perspective, my Dual Cab Mack 4x4 Horsetruck at 15 ton GVM gets 3 km/litre with DIESEL...

Then you have all the fire hazard and long range fuel tank problems with explosive fuel, and vehicle loses in the Outback driving through fire hazard with spinefex grasses, and so on. This problem is outlined in the Topic in this Category on OK, PETROL OR DIESEL...

I am not sure you are going to gain much for the expense in all fairness, and my best advice might be to consider a second hand turbo diesel 100 Series.... Buy the same year, park it alongside, swap the toys over, and sell the petrol one and you might now even be at much of a loss or at all. Wink

In all fairness, less that 1 in 100 Bushtracker Owners last long term in a petrol vehicle.... Less than 1 in 100. And most of those have a Leased Vehicle or there is another reason they just cannot change over. It is more than just economy, there is a real safety hazard with long range fuel tanks or jerry cans in the outback, explosive fumes, accidents, parking too close to the fire, spinifex grass fires around exhaust, on and on...

Fair Dinkum from the lone Ranger,
Semper Fidelis
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Brambo



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lone Ranger,

I appreciate your comments, but I should come clean. The vehicle in question is a 2006 Lexus LX470, and is an absolute dream to drive. It tows my 17.5 ' boat, and my 18' van with ease. At the time I purchased this I was looking at, and preferred a similar vintage Sahara with a turbo diesel. I missed out by a bee's whatsa-name, so I purchased the Lexus instead.

I do understand the differences between diesel and petrol in relation to torque, towing, economy and safety etc, but have become quite attached to the LX470.

The idea behind the mods on the Lexus was to assist in the motor "breathing" a little more efficiently and hopefully with a little less go juice needed to achieve the same cruising speeds.

These guys:

http://www.bulletcars.com/superchargers/toyota/

do superchargers, exhaust, intercoolers etc for the V8 petrol but I think that might be an overkill for what I want.
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