Towing with a 79 series Landcruiser

robandshirl · Post by **robandshirl** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:24 am

Hi fellow 79 series landcruiser owners,

I have just bought a 79 duel cab landcruiser, have done a 600 kg gvm upgrade and a heap of other upgrades. My question to other 79 series owners is do you tow in 4th or 5th gear. I have just sold my old realiable GQ 1998 Nissan patrol ute which i used to tow our 16 foot vicount caravan with and allways towed in 4th. Back in the 1990 I new a freind who blue his gear box up towing in 5th, and a mechanic freind used to fix quite a few gear boxes because of people towing in fifth. I have put this question to the service department at Albany Toyota and their answer was that they advised that you tow in 4th you could put it in 5th on a very flat run but they dont advise it. I have also asked a couple of mechanics I know and they said the same. From what I can gather all the reasearch and tecnical changes has happened with automatic gear boxes and manual boxes really havent changed much since the ninty's. On a recent trip towing the old van I towed in 4th and at between 90 and 95 the revs where at around 2600 the sam as in 5th without towing. We pick up our 17ft Bushtracker in mid January. Look forward to the feed back. Rob

Grumblebum and the Dragon · Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:53 am

Rob I would generally tow in 4th and only 5th when running downhill. I think you will use less fuel that well and look after the box.

John

Post by **Bushtracker** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:59 am

I could be wrong,
But I do not think it has changed that much. I would suggest you listen to the advice of Toyota like they gave you...

Here is the why of it: Fourth gear is on like what you could thing of as the main shaft. Fifth gear is figuratively what you could think of as sitting on a little spindle shaft, like a side shaft or an after thought as if it was just an upgrade on the four speed. It is actually just a smaller gear and bearings to my understanding. Your van is on the smaller side, so it would be OK in fifth on the flat or slightly down hill, but in general you want to keep it towing in fourth.... I personally would just leave it in fourth, higher rpm, but your foot is not in it as much, it might not impact fuel economy that much...

If you tow much in fifth, you would give away any potential fuel savings in a premature transmission rebuild...

Kind regards, Admin... My take on this...

robandshirl · Post by **robandshirl** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:31 pm

Thanks for your prompt answers John and Steve,
You have both confirmed my long held thoughts. I have read a lot of posts from Grumblebum and the Dragon and have thought them all to be based on common sense, and as for Steve I dont think you could get better advice, so thanks to you both. Hope to meet you some day John.
Rob.

Knightriders · Post by **Knightriders** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:35 pm

Rob, I took delivery of my new 20' Bushtracker in July this year and towed it back to WA over 3 weeks with my 76 series Landcruiser.
I have always towed in 4 gear with my previous vehicles but I did try 5th gear across the Nullabor but surprisingly the fuel savings were not that noticeable.
You are much better towing in 4th gear, especially if you consider keeping your Landcuiser for a while as it will put extra strain on the box in 5th gear and eventually you will probably end up with a noisy gear box from worn bearings. That is my thoughts anyway.
I hope you enjoy your Bushtracker when you take delivery, because they are definitely worth the investment and will open up a lot of places that other vans could not venture without bits falling off.
Might see you on the road one day.

passement · Post by **passement** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:18 pm

Hi guys,
It is my understanding that 5th gear in a 79 series gearbox is on the main shaft. This is the reason that 79 series engines spin over a bit faster than you would expect at 100K/Hr in fifth gear.

Therefore if road conditions are okay and weight isn't overly excessive I think you'll find it okay to tow in fifth gear. Of course when towing a large van you should make your own decision regarding the most appropriate gear. My current van is a light weight and I tow in fifth all the time in my 79.

Cheers Geoff

kjgsledge · Post by **kjgsledge** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:42 am

A engine revving a bit higher in 4th gear is not going to hurt the engine as aposed to an engine that is towing the same load in 5th with the revs dropped this loads the engine up more
Get a piro gauge fitted that reads your egt (exhaust gas temps) and you will see the difference
Stick to 4th
Kurt

Louie100 · Post by **Louie100** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:02 pm

i don't think I could put up with driving from some where like Brisbane to Alice Springs for example in fourth gear all the way, would drive me nuts, I use fifth on the flat and drop to fourth as soon as a rise comes into view.
Its also interesting to note that my EGT drops in a higher gear in line with the revs.

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:31 am

And the ratios don't feel right in the 79 series anyway. When you are in 5th I'm looking for the next gear.

Ajay and Fletch · Post by **Ajay and Fletch** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:06 am

I recommend that you have a conversation with a transmission specialist. The correct gear for towing a heavy load is the gear that gives a 1 to 1 ratio from the engine to the output of the transmission. That is the strongest gear by far. The gears above are much smaller and far more fragile. Sure when you are on the highway you feel that you need to go up a gear but when you do, you place your transmission at risk of an expensive failure.

Just trying to help fellow Bushtracker aficionardos.

Regards ...

datama · Post by **datama** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:24 am

Rob & Shirl,

Don’t know if you read ALL of the comments in this section on the Auto but it is most relevant to the manual gearbox as well.

http://www.bushtrackerforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3583

Some decisions can cost heavily in the long run, depends on if .....or where you might break down!

Regards,
Dave

robandshirl · Post by **robandshirl** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:15 pm

Thanks Dave
I just had al look and yes the disscusion on the 200 series applies to the 79 series as well, some good information there so thanks. Over the last couple of weeks i have talked to several mecanics and fifth gear is seperate from the main shaft some said you could tow in fifth gear on a flat section of road and especialy with a tail wind, but that there was still a risk. So its is defianatly 4th for me. I looked up the gear ratio 1st 4.529, 2nd 2.464, 3rd 1.490, 4th 1.000, 5th 0.881. So as you said Dave 4th is it.
Rob

robandshirl · Post by **robandshirl** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:12 pm

Sorry it was Ajay and Fletch that mentioned gear ratios, and on that i looked it up as i stated. Rob

passement · Post by **passement** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:30 am

Hi Rob and Shirl,

I would say for peace of mind you can't go wrong towing in 4th. Even with my own van, which I would say would be much lighter than yours, there are road conditions where I stay in 4th.

One question I would ask though is how many of these mechanics that you have asked about towing in 5th have actually pulled down a late model 70 series gearbox? The reason I ask this is because late model 70 series boxes do not have 5th gear on a spindle - 5th is on the main cluster and it is therefore a much stronger gearbox than what you will see in other ute gearboxes. Also the rev difference between 4th and 5th in a late 70 series box is not as great as say a hilux gearbox which does have 5th located on a spindle. The 5th gear ratio in a manual hilux is .838 which relatively speaking is a fair bit lower than the LC 5th gear ratio. Hence the reason that I am comfortable dropping my LC79 into 5th whilst towing when the conditions are right.

Having said this I agree that keeping to 4th is a safer option. Particulary if venturing into remote country where you would want to minimise any potential risk of damage to your gearbox.

Enjoy your new Bushtracker. Hopefully I won't be too far behind you in getting one.

Cheers Geoff

robandshirl · Post by **robandshirl** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:10 pm

Hi Geoff,
Yes you are right, the mechanic that said that fifth is not on the mainshaft is wrong, it is. Albany Toyota contacted me with more information on the subject, they gave me a diagram of the inside of the gear box with 5th clearly marked on the main shaft. They said they defiantly recommend that you tow in fourth, as it is the only gear that is 1 to i and straight down the shaft. But they did say that if you where going across the Nullabour on a very flat road you could put it into fifth, but as soon as it becomes a bit undulating go back to fourth.
Rob

Darjak · Post by **Darjak** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:30 pm

You could give Marks 4WD in Melbourne a call about his 6speed Auto conversion to suit 1Vd-FTE 76,78 & 79 Series with Tow Hual & engine braking. Transmission rated 1200nm of torque with a GVM 6803 & GCM 9525 kg. I read the advert in Caravan World July 2015 Issue 539 Page 245 Might save doing 10,000 + gear changes a year.LOL

brianebz · Post by **brianebz** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:24 pm

When comparing Toyota 79 ser geaboxes, it may be worthwhile determining if they are the same gearbox. When I visited a transmission specialist in my 2007 V8 79 ser., the engineer , in a simple glance, confirmed that I had factory diff locks because he could see that I had "the heavy duty gear box". Apparently, the factory diff lock option came with a HD gearbox, bigger splines in axles etc as a package. Perhaps if it is a different gearbox, then 5th gear is built differently. Having said that, the clutch didnt seem to be any heavier.

In the Chevvy, I always tow in "Tow Haul Mode", which generally restricts to 5th (out of six) under 100KPH. Same economy, more responsive power and importantly, the gear box temperature is always noticeably cooler.

Regards, Brian.

Loki of Condor · Post by **Loki of Condor** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:42 pm

brianebz wrote:When comparing Toyota 79 ser geaboxes, it may be worthwhile determining if they are the same gearbox. When I visited a transmission specialist in my 2007 V8 79 ser., the engineer , in a simple glance, confirmed that I had factory diff locks because he could see that I had "the heavy duty gear box". Apparently, the factory diff lock option came with a HD gearbox, bigger splines in axles etc as a package. Perhaps if it is a different gearbox, then 5th gear is built differently. Having said that, the clutch didnt seem to be any heavier.

In the Chevvy, I always tow in "Tow Haul Mode", which generally restricts to 5th (out of six) under 100KPH. Same economy, more responsive power and importantly, the gear box temperature is always noticeably cooler.

Regards, Brian.

I would be surprised if there are two versions of the gearbox.

As far as I am aware, it is the same gearbox as in the manual 100 Series, that's why the engine was detuned to the same power and torque.

kjgsledge · Post by **kjgsledge** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:02 pm

Iam with you Loki, it think someone's telling porky pies

Bushtrek · Post by **Bushtrek** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:16 pm

Gents,
There are two different gearboxes in the Toyota line-up.

HDJ80, FZJ80, HDJ100, FZJ105 and UZJ100 all used the H151F gearbox. All used the same ratios.

The HDJ78/79's used the H150F box (same as HZJ80, FJ80) but with the gearlever in a different position.

The H150F has a lower first and second gear, these have different gearbox input splines to the H151F.

The ratios are:

H150F H151F
4.529 4.081
2.464 2.294
1.490 1.490
1.000 1.000
0.881 0.881

kjgsledge · Post by **kjgsledge** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:42 am

Bushtek, the 79 series is in question here, not the rest of the Toyota lineup, are there 2 different boxes for that model only
Kurt

arthur uncle · Post by **arthur uncle** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:59 am

All VDJ7* have the same gearbox, the H150F. with 5th on the main shaft

Which is the same box as the HDJ/1hz series,(we are talking Toyota ,minimal change Co)

But the V8s have a different bell housing and larger input shaft

All VDJs since 2012 have factory diff locks (F&R) and ABS standard, I think there was an upgrade in axles then, but not gearbox.

Bushtrek · Post by **Bushtrek** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:27 pm

Kurt,
Late reply, sorry have been tied up designing a safe jack attachment for the BT.
There has only ever been one gearbox, the H150F, for the 78 and 79 series.

kjgsledge · Post by **kjgsledge** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:40 am

Thanks mate,
That's what I thought

lets went · Post by **lets went** » Mon May 08, 2017 6:47 am

Hi all just wondering if any one has done the conversion for the manual box to the auto in a 79 series Dual cab.

andrebb · Post by **andrebb** » Mon May 08, 2017 6:28 pm

Check out WholesaleAutomatics. They offer a full kit though it is really expensive.

Louie100 · Post by **Louie100** » Sun May 14, 2017 8:59 pm

I believe Marks adapters in Melbourne do a pretty professional kit too.

lets went · Post by **lets went** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:18 am

Thanks for your replays, still doing a lot of thinking about the 79 series verses the 200 series, I have heard that they don't tow as good as a 200 series, do you know if this is the case, has any one had any problems with the dual cab 79 series, I know it all about how you set your truck and van up, find it hard to believe my self.

Regards
John

Post by **Bushtracker** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:39 pm

Four words for you,
Dodge Cummins Diesel Ram.....

Made for a 6 ton towing job even in the 2500.. Tow Haul Mode splits the gears in the six speed, Engine brake like a Jake Brake in two modes Manual and Auto, on all the time when you let off the accelerator and only when you feather the brake...

Nation wide Service with Chrysler and Cummins and the Converter, safer and better fuel economy.. There is no comparison as it is a full league ahead..

I mean that before you get in over your head, all you Owners thinking of making Toyota Conversions, utes out of wagons, automatics out of manuals, six wheelers out of singles, all these things cost money. Look, by the time you get done you are a long way to a Dodge Cummins Diesel which is really twice the safety and control with better fuel economy and less driver fatigue.

I know what I am talking about, having owned both in the 22 years of Bushtracker. All the negatives are invented by people that do not or cannot own a Ram. I am not sure there ARE any negatives outside of downtown parking. And for those converting wagons to utes? You end up with the same parking length anyway, just half the vehicle of the Cummins.

With: Custom exhaust and intake, added lubricity in the diesel, and you end up with half the sensors, better fuel economy, and the Cummins is probably a million km engine...

On the Road Ranger, I don't sell these, just telling you how it is for your own benefit...

Louie100 · Post by **Louie100** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:08 am

John, to partially answer your question, I have an LC79 duel cab and it tows our 20â€™ BT quite well, BUT, to enable it to do so to my expectations, I have increased the suspension and power specifications which obviously come at a cost, I imagine a 200 series would pull better having quite a lot more power as standard but again the suspension will need some work. The downside is the fuel economy, or lack of, as the little V8 works quite hard.

lets went · Post by **lets went** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:56 pm

Hi Andrew and Christine thanks for your honest feed back, I totally agree with you on the suspension up grade on both vehicles and the power issue.

Thanks Steven but the Dodge wont fit down the cane headlands and tracks we run up in the north with out making some nasty marks on it and I do need an all round truck that's the problem I have.
But for sure the bigger trucks are the way to go if it fits your needs.

Regards
John

lets went · Post by **lets went** » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:25 am

Hi Steven not sure if I am reading this right but the Dodge Ram 2500 has a payload of 913 Kgs.

Regards
John

Bow & Nan · Post by **Bow & Nan** » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:47 pm

I replaced the rear coils in the Ram with air bags and had the GVM reset to 4995 kg

Post by **Bushtracker** » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:21 pm

Hello again....

First of all I introduced the larger American trucks to towing Bushtrackers with my F-350 full import, before the Ford Australia trucks imported the Brazilian built Ford with the weaker 4R100 transmission.. I solved the transmission problems with an external transmission oil cooler instead of the mesh in the bottom of the radiator cooler that plugged up, and pioneered the use of Transmax Z synthetic transmission oil, all of this nearly 20 year ago.. I have more experience on back tracks with the American trucks than most and I disagree with it being "too big".. Landcruisers do not run on rails, and their wheel tracks are a meter wide on each side. The American trucks are not that much wider than the Landcruiser. I think in the 99% of practical time, this is an Urban Myth from people that have not owned them.

Now I just went outside with Stuart and measured a 200 Series outside to outside of front fender, at 1960 mm. I went over with Stuart and measured outside of front fender to outside of front fender on my Dodge Cummins Diesel 2500 and it was on 2060 mm.. Case in point, only 100 mm difference between them? And when the Landcruiser wheel tracks are a meter wide where they wander all over??? This whole thing about being too wide is an "Urban Myth" from people that do not own them... Their loss.. !!

As to the payload? It can be varied up and down by the people that do the conversions with their Engineers and a Mod Plate. Much of the time the 2500 can go all the way to the 3500 loading, with just air bags inside the existing coils. I have varied them all, down to regular Car License with a small move down in GVM, and up in GVM with Air Bags inside coils, and air bags over rear springs in some cases for towing larger loads like goose neck horse floats. A lot of the vehicles have the same running gear for the 250-350, and 2500-3500, just a stiffer suspension in the rear. They do not change radically until you go to larger diffs and dual rear wheels, most run the same running gear in the SRW (Single Rear Wheel models).

Kind regards, from the Guy that does the R&D on tow vehicles. I have owned a dozen in 22 years, half Landcruisers, half American trucks, still own one of each as we speak... On the Road with the Ranger

Roachie · Post by **Roachie** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:09 pm

Agree with Steve...although our respective chosen marques are different.....he is now a Dodge Cummins Ram devotee, whilst I'm in the GM camp with my Silverado.

My truck was converted in Queensland and had been de-rated to 4,490kg to enable it to be driven on a car license,

However, it had been fitted with all manner of heavy accessories and upon getting it back here to SA and weighing it "empty", I found it was already at about 4,650kg!!!!!

What to do?

I worked through the additional gear it had on it and was able to shed about 300kg by removing unwanted accessories. This got me legal, but once I hooked up the BT and both my wife and I climbed on board, we were over weight again.

I was able to have an engineer re-plate the GVM to 5,171kg without doing anything else to the truck. It would have only required additional suspension....but that was one of the things the original owner had already done.....heavier suspension, 6" lift and air bags in the rear too.

I can now stay legal even when the BT is attached.

As for driveability, road manners etc, there simply is no comparison. T/H mode and exhaust brake alone make this thing a worthwhile purchase.

Roachie

Bufjog · Post by **Bufjog** » Mon May 24, 2021 10:28 pm

Having read all the posts on this subject I will put in my 2 bobs worth.
I own a 2010 F150 Platinum with the 5.4 petrol motor. I chose this over a F250 because I didn't need so much of a TRUCK. I bought it new having been converted by VDC. I ran it in hard towing my previous 19 foot caravan.
I fitted an external transmission cooler to get the water cooling separate from the radiator. I also installed a Herrod ( SCT ) flash tune. It is a very frisky machine and I prefer to drive it even more so than my Ford FPV GTF GT. OK it is petrol and I realise the negatives associated with a petrol motor in the outback and also the fuel consumption. I find the initial response offered by the petrol motor to some degree negates the torque advantage of the diesel motors. Granted the diesels will hold their power on the hills, but the gearbox ratios of the F150 negate this advantage to a degree. The current trend is to discontinue diesel fueled motors which is a shame.

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