MAJOR CURRENT MODS ON TOW VEHICLES FOR FUEL ECONOMY..

 
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Would you like me to expand this Topic with R&D?
Yes, we love it, please expand it and carry on
97%
 97%  [ 47 ]
No thanks, there is too much on Tow Vehicles already
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 48

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: MAJOR CURRENT MODS ON TOW VEHICLES FOR FUEL ECONOMY.. Reply with quote

Well, I am at it again... Laughing

I have been delving into the basic Mods you can do to the current tow vehicles to improve fuel economy by 15-20%

Current topics could be:
Hydrogen injection experiments going on...
Tuners to increase fuel efficiency and timing...
DPF Delete programs..
Landcruiser Extractors, and larger exhaust systems..
Larger Free Flow exhaust systems like this on my F-350, A 4" Free Flow system done here in Kunda Park..



And an MBRP 3.5" Stainless Turbo Back Downpipe, belled out at the bottom to run to the 4" free flow exhaust.. You can see it here in the picture, and increased turbo back downpipe from the stock 3" to a stainless 3.5" and some people go to 4".. It decreases back pressure on the exhaust system, by allowing it a larger free flow, and this adds fuel economy to some degree if you keep your foot out of it... All of these performance increases come from the racing engineering approach, but they increase fuel economy with increase performance, as long as you do not USE the performance by running a lead foot on the "Go" pedal, OK ? Laughing



There is a company here that can do this kind of work for you... Toyota Extractors, larger exhaust systems, that sort of goodies... I will run some tests and see how much it improves the fuel economy, but from other Forums, the larger free flow exhaust systems can add about 5%... But again, that is if you light foot it, and don't use the added performance by just going harder and fasterrrrr....

And Tuners like this SCT which I have just been Email Tunes for, that increase engine and shifting efficiency, from the other Forums it can be as much as 10% -15% better fuel economy, but I will run tests..



I can put on pictures of Landcruiser Extractors, bigger exhausts, things like that if you want...

You Vote, Poll above...

Regards, lone Ranger...


Last edited by Bushtracker on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:18 am; edited 7 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, thank you all that took the time to Vote, 25 to 0 so far, is a fair consensus....

A first report: Exhaust systems are restrictive. I have gained about 4-5% just as the Performance People touted on those Forums. Getting rid of the tight bends, going up in size, and getting a free flow straight through muffler gives you a measured increase in fuel economy. I will get pictures of the systems they are doing for Landcruisers, extractors, and they go up a size. You do not have to go louder to accomplish this, mine rumbles a little because I wanted it to as I like the V-8 sound.. Laughing Cool

I will run tests on the Tuner a.s.a.p.. But they claim about 10% and so far all they have claimed is true to form. Now yes, if you do your figures, the payback might take a while. But I do not believe fuel prices will stay this low for long. This is a sell off to the downside that has been overdone IMO. The CEO of Woodside Petroleum figures that with the emerging markets that have aquired the taste for fuel in China and India, oil will stabilize in the $70-$90 a barrel range. So when you do your sums, you can figure the costs/payback time accordingly.

Now, ALL PERFORMANCE increase, also increase fuel economy, IF you keep your foot out of it. It ONLY works if you drive as light footed as you can. If you just use the power to run up the hills faster, and pass more people, then you will see little gain or even a loss. But, if you drive as light footed as you can, then the performance increases will improve fuel economy. I have experimented and seen this in Toyotas, as well as the American Mid size luxury vehicles. It works...

On the Tuner, there is a Thread on this, but why I chose the SCT LIVEWIRE is its name indicated the advantage in that you can download tunes for it, custom designed to your needs. The best has been from Eric at Innovative Diesel, according to the Forums in the U.S. for Ford, Dodge, and Cheverolet trucks. I am impressed...

Innovative Diesel Performance
http://www.innovativediesel.com
sales@innovativediesel.com
Phone: 410-620-3020
Fax: 800-793-3175
Toll Free: 866-642-7844

I have had four Tuners, PowerChips, Platinum model Edge Juice with Attitude Module, Quadzilla, and now the SCT LIVEWIRE... The Forums rate this current one the highest, and Erics Tunes as the best, in the majority view as far as I can determine in my three years on those Forums doing research. But there are new models coming out all the time, and you should look into them yourself.

Performance pays. Yes.. Not in just fuel economy for $$$ but also for something else VERY important to me: RANGE of travel... Wink

Best Regards, LR


Last edited by Bushtracker on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Michael Boemelburg



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: all these modifications? insurance??? Reply with quote

I know I am being a "negative' person, but I must ask? How do all these modifications go over with the insurers of our second most valuable asset(for most of us)? Doe anyone have any idea? I have asked insurers in the past(when I was very young) about extractors and increased exhaust flow, and the reply was a categorical...."no"
Any indications are appreciated.
Mike B
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael, cute inside joke about being negative... Laughing Laughing

Look, in all fairness, I think it is HOW you ask the Insurance Companies. Their answers are based on the Hoon issues of hot rodding things. No one to my knowledge has had a problem with increasing the performance of their 4x4. Almost ALL 4x4s are modified to some degree, and I have never heard of an Assessor having an issue with it. As a matter of fact, I list all my goodies on my Policies, so I can argue a higher Market Value if it was lost or stolen or something... Wink

Besides, I doubt the Assessor would even notice extractors on the engine or an increased exhaust system if you rolled it over or what not... It is not changing the function of the rig, just improving it, like a better suspension or larger tyres than stock.. You only can get into trouble if you went smaller tyres, or something weaker, and it contributed to the accident. Extractors and exhaust would not do this, and with adequate muffler it is not even louder.

They would have to prove in Court that it contributed to the accident, a near impossible task in my opinion. We do engine mods all the time, turbos, intercoolers, snorkles, all sorts of goodies, and it does not matter to insurance... In fact I list them on my policy for valuation increases, OK?

Kind Regards from the lone Ranger, out scouting the trail 24/7
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I am going in two directions here... He He... I keep loading the King Ranch up with toys, at the same time I am adding fuel economy programs. I started out getting 7.3 kms/ltr and that went down to 7 with the addition of boxes and fuel tanks and trailblazer fridge, still set up for a gooseneck.



Sorry but the results are delayed as I keep adding weight in equipment.. Now with the addition of this winch, the new Warn 16,500 lb Ti (Temperature indicator in hand piece) and third battery and more, I got down to 6.8 kms per litre. (This is the second Warn 16.5 Ti, if you want to know more just ask..) Top bit of gear.



View from the front... Overkill winch, but cool if you need it..



The 4” exhaust system has put me back up to 7-7.2 kms per litre loaded up... I am trying a new SCT Tuner Program from Innovative Diesel Performance... The actually EMAILED me the program and I loaded it myself on the Tuner off the lap top. I will not cease to play until I get the fabled 8km /litre out of this rig that is sitting at 4500 kg rig. I am testing a Tune from Eric at Innovative called STREET (performance) .... Results soon, in testing today as I go up to Woodford where a horse trainer is working on my Gunner Baby Paint Stallion 2 y.o. "Gunner's Admiralty Oak" and that is a 200 km round trip. I will be making that trip three times a week for the next few weeks and should have some results.

Also, the next experiment is to see if real full Synthetic Oils like Amsoil in the engine and differentials will actually improve fuel economy due to lowering the friction coefficient. Overall I am not in favour of synthetics as everyone does it to extend oil changes. I can do that, but to be safe it maybe can double the length of the oil change interval for triple the cost. I would rather shorten the oil change interval with good oil. I am currently using Castrol RX Super and doing about 7000 km changes, but there is a rumour (maybe an Urban Myth) that the Amsoil in Diffs and engine can improve the fuel economy... Anybody heard of this concept?

Regards from the Ranger, out scouting the trail.... Doing R&D 24/7 on your behalf..


Last edited by Bushtracker on Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LATEST FUEL ECONOMY TESTS:

512 kms on Monday and Tuesday results... Say What? Yea, I did 512, over 250 a day because I am driving out west above Woodford in the mountains where I am getting lessons on how to train a green broke Stallion, my new Baby 2 year old “Gunner’s Davinci Code”... For you horse lovers here he is and will be my aim to make him famous as I am training him up for the NRHA 2010 Futurity.





He is an Imported Stud from “Son of a Gun” out of “Gunner”, and I bought him for only $7000 which is dead cheap for a Stud from a multi million dollar Reining Champion Gunner Baby. Anyway, for you horse lovers, he is an American Indian Paint, a “Medicine Hat”, see the wolf ears head dress? Bred stone deaf for battle, big Medicine amongst the Tribes.



Blue eyes and all.. He is eye candy to me..!! And one of the three horses I will be training for myself. Thought you might like to see what the lone Ranger was up to with horses, as this one is so pretty he is fun to look at, a baby 2 y.o.

I will be doing about 220 kms a day round trip up to see him and train him myself so he can come home over Christmas; so this is the time to be testing Program Tunes for fuel economy..

Anyway, enough of that kind of horses, and onto the other kind of horses I am a fair hand at, diesel Horse Power. With the SCT Tuner on Eric of Innovative Diesel Performances Tune “STREET” which is about a 400 HP Tune, only TOW SAFE to 7000 lbs, I used 65.9 litres for 512.4 kms and that comes up to 7.78 litres per km. Now on the SCT Tuner show above, I have three SCT provided already loaded tunes, TOW 50, Street, and Extreme. I only tried the TOW 50 and there was not really a fuel economy gain. I will have to try it again when towing my van. On the Ford Forums, where the lone Ranger has 600 Posts of Research with 3 Fords over the past few years, Eric of Innovative Diesel seems to have the most popular Tunes. He emailed me his three most popular, AGG TOW, STREET, and EXTREME STREET.

Eric writes:
***********************************************************
The Xtreme Street always yields the best mileage, when driven easily. It’s due to the higher ICP pressure and injection timing. We can build you a program that will yield better mileage. Every strategy is slightly different, which is the reason some trucks show better mileage stock than others. After our tuning, all the trucks are pretty close.

Your truck is louder because I turn the EGR off. We can turn it on or have it on at idle to quiet it down.

I’m willing to custom build you a program for your clients and save it as a template for use on other customers.

I’ve attached our logo, I really appreciate it.
Thanks.
Eric
Innovative Diesel Performance
http://www.innovativediesel.com
sales@innovativediesel.com
Phone: 410-620-3020
Fax: 800-793-3175

***********************************************************
I will attach his logo, when I figure out how to do it with his PDF or take it off the internet..

Now I have only tried STREET, and have gotten 7.8 kms per litre on a 4.5 Ton Truck, 20% city and 80% highway !! That is HUGE, and this test was done with also 3 Hoon events, where I could not help myself and did a street drag with some Hoon trying to pass on the left, and being stuck in city traffic another time for 20 minute idling.

That means that on a trip of highway alone I should be able to get the fabled 8km per litre... And that is not even using the EXTREME STREET, which I will have to try next. !!!!! So, the Modifications and Tuner pays off. The only disadvantage is you cannot do it all with one tune so far. You have to run one tune for towing, and then switch over to another tune for running empty, to get this kind of extreme optimal performance of over 20 miles per gallon in a 4 1/2 ton Luxury truck with Dual rear wheels.

Cost of mods in A$
SCT LIVE WIRE Tuner Pre loaded with Tunes and in a Monitor form to watch key functions of the engine.

EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature Probe kit) so I can read EGTs for big towing on long hills as you want to keep them at a maximum threshold for taking care of your Turbo and engine of about 1200 F

MBRP 3.5 Turbo back downpipe kit in stainless steel

AIR FREIGHT, LANDED, $1895
4” EXHAUST SYSTEM $1320 Done here...

So, that adds up to just over $3000, but I am making a 4.5 ton Dual Rear Wheel Crew Cab Long Wheel Base Luxury truck, DANCE. And this Dually has 410 gears, while most of you will be running 373 gears in the diffs and should be able to do better yet. I have to keep my truck under 2000 RPM to achieve this and that is only 100 kph.

This fuel economy already beats my 100 Series, and is on the tail of beating the 200 Series and will probably even beat it when towing. Stock I only got 4.5 kms per litre towing my very large 22’ Bushtracker, and this should add about 1.5 km/lire to get to 6km per litre towing... That is some DANCING with this large of a Tow Vehicle... Laughing

More results as I have them, but I am pleased already to be beating Toyota and most other Japanese tow vehicles towing large vans, with twice the truck in luxury, weight, wheelbase, power, and safety.. Cool

Regards from the lone Ranger, R&D with horses and horse power ....
And sharing the results with you...


Last edited by Bushtracker on Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After trying Eric at Innovative Diesels STREET tune, I may just try the EXTREME STREET. Now this is not the truck pull race tunes he does, he says he has people that run around on these tunes all the time.

He writes: "The Xtreme Street always yields the best mileage, when driven easily. It’s due to the higher ICP pressure and injection timing. We can build you a program that will yield better mileage. Every strategy is slightly different, which is the reason some trucks show better mileage stock than others. After our tuning, all the trucks are pretty close."

Further: "I have customers trucks pushing 200k miles with our tuning. The 6.0L has been out for a long time, since 2003, and there are plenty of high mileage trucks who have tested the design.

On a diesel truck, you will increase mileage with any of the programs that add power. The main reason for a mileage increase is injection timing and fuel pressure. Both make for a more efficient combustion process."

And today:"Thanks, I'll work on a couple special programs just for your testing. I had been sick the past few days, but feeling better now. So, I'm just getting caught up.

Here's the image in jpg. I appreciate the effort.

Your EGR exhaust side is closed off at the valve. So, you have less change of EGR cooler failure or anything related. It should keep your EGT's down also, since hot exhaust isn't going back into your engine."



Now why him? After three years of watching and study: He is the most widely recommended and most widely supported with a huge following on the Ford Forums and elsewhere.. And being able to have the Tunes emailed and loaded on the SCT LIVEWIRE yourself, is a huge advantage. He writed custom Tunes for all vehicles, to optimize the combustion and shifting. Either for POWER or in our case ECONOMY. We may not be successful in getting a one tune suits all use, we may have to have one program for Towing and one for running empty. But we will continue to test the Tunes...

You with the 7.3 PowerStroke diesel in the Brazilian built Fords have one of the strongest diesel engines in the world.. It was only canned because it could not meet the higher emissions test. Anyway, with any of the engines if you abuse the machine doing street drags all the time, you will affect engine life. But driven light footed, it can give you the 10-15%. If you think you don't need the fuel economy with prices down, know that they will be back up in 6-12 months due to resuming of demand... This is also not just $$$ it is also about RANGE of travel. Wink

Will keep you posted.... Kind Regards, stg, da road Ranger... Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here are the latest results, done with as close of empirical testing as possible.. Same exact route, same time of day, same speed, same rough distance... AND I filled to the level of no foam, seeing diesel in the filler neck.

About 400 kms again, and the EXTREME STREET Tune, did not improve fuel economy.. Now it could be that I was carrying a little more weight with full long range tanks, and there is the contributing factor in that I added some minor windage in the following dark tint F-350 Deflector on the bonnet for the windscreen, and these Weather Guards to keep the windows open parked in the rain in hot weather..




But I do not think this had much of an effect... I think the higher tune is just too aggressive and around town and on small hills it is just too much power and you cannot light foot it enough running about 450 HP. On the Highway, at just under 2000 rpm, my fuel consumption digital readout on the dash could stay at around 8.3, but in town and accelerating from stops it falls way off. Total fuel economy was only 7.2 kms/litre on EXTREME STREET. It was better on the STREET tune of 7.8 kms/ltr. On a long highway trip I am confident I could break the 8km/litre barrier but not this time on combined town and country driving.. I have shifted back to the lower setting. More results on AGG TOW when I have the opportunity.

On the potential for more engine wear at these levels, Eric of Innovative Diesel writes:
********************************************************
Hey Steven,

The Street tune is very mild and timing isn’t any higher than the tow at normal driving. It’s only 2 degree’s higher at WOT in the higher rpms. I keep my timing mild, much lower than any other module or device you would use. I have other ways of making power, rather than adding timing. Timing does help with mileage, so I do add the minimum needed for increased mileage.

I don’t think you would decrease engine life enough with tuning to be noticeable. It’s negligible if there really is much of a change. You would need to be making serious power for a noticeable change in longevity of the motor and trans.

Thanks.

Eric
**********************************************************

Next: We will be shifting gear to Toyota extractors and exhausts with pictures next, their camera is malfuctioning and we are waiting for the fix..

Regards, stg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this is not conclusive evidence yet ... But with this 6x6 6 wheel brakes 1.5 ton trailer on the back:




With about 1.3 tons of tyres on the back, and all that windage of the rough surfaces...



On AGG TOW Tune from Innovative Diesel, my fuel consumption guage on the dash was averaging 6.8 kms per litre... This would be near a record towing that load and windage. I will do further tests with my van when I have the chance.

So far the 4-5% with a clean "flow through" exhaust, and 10% with the Tuner is about right. In AGG TOW mode, it might even be more. At a cost of $3000 you can do your sums as to when the payback would come through, but in truth it is about range of available fuel as well. So far results are about what was forecast on the Perfomance Forums. I would suggest these better tuning options are an advantage with all common rail diesels, Japanese and American, and European as well..

I will post more results when I have them. Wink
Kind Regards, Ranger.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here is a 30' GooseNeck Toy hauler on the back... The shiney bit is stainless steel, full custom rig I am going to fit out and finish here at Bushtracker for my horses.

I have to confirm this with a fillup, but on the SCT Custom Tune of AGG TOW the fuel meter is reading 6.7 kms per litre. If this is true it will be close in running with the best. This 30' float is heavy, fully fitted out with horse partitions and rubber floors and fold down and sliding windows and a lot of gear and it weighs over 3 tons, stainless steel is not light... Laughing






I am not sure I like the Innovative Diesel Tune of Aggressive Tow, as it "flares" a bit dropping a gear and going up 500 rpm at the slightest of hills. I will have to do more testing to see if that or the SCT Tow 50 has better fuel economy... But so far this is great fuel economy...

Regards, Ranger
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, here are my first results in a long range haul...
With a Ton of horses on board, I am sitting right on my limit without air brakes at 4500 kg. Shocked

With the Ford on Aggressive Tow which puts it up at about 400 HP, it is almost too much and you have to keep your foot out of it. But here are the results, 513 kms, 10% traffic, 10% hills, (Gatton NRHA 2 day Horse Competition), 96 litres of diesel.

That runs out at 18.7 litres per hundred for a heavy load of 4500 kg with this 30' Gooseneck and the mods listed in this Thread. The next trip, I will do with another setting (Tune) or maybe just run Stock with the TOW/HAUL Selection.





I am disappointed it did not do better, the Agg Tow may be too performance minded and I will have to try the other tunes...

Regards, stg
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further testing:

The SCT Tuner came with a "Tow 50" Towing plus 50 horsepower Tune from SCT. I did the same run, to a NRHA Show in Gatton, same route, same load towing about 4500 kg, plus a half ton in the bed. Results were 5.19 kms per litre.

So far the Tune from Eric at Innovative Diesel is the king. It also shuts off the EGR and the engine and exhaust run a little cooler. It ran 5.35 kms per litre.

I guess that is pretty good considering I am up over 9 ton all up, at 15.14 miles per gallon in the old school, loaded truck over 4500 plus horsefloat at 4500. I am not complaining.



Cheers, stg


Last edited by Bushtracker on Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here are the results of my latest R&D on my new Silverado: EFI Live (you can research on the Forums and Internet) and DPF Delete, on Level 2 EFI Live, HorsePower boost of about 50 HP, and free flow without the DPF means better fuel economy and Regen....

This is a Biiiiiiig Silverado, spinning Duals, more windage, long bed, heavier...



More windage, long 2400 mm bed, more weight, more wheels and tyres, more rolling friction on the ground, a little big Rig... But some surprising immediate results..



This is early testing, and subject to change as the engine wears in, but on my first tests with 800kms on the clock the I am getting about 11 litres per hundred at 100 kph, and about 13-13.5 at 110 kph. That is pretty good for this big of a Rig. The REAL EFI Live and DPF Delete will show up when towing, and I expect the "Record"... We will have a report when I break it in and can do some towing. In not having the DPF Regeneration of a 20% fuel loss dumped to burn out the DPF, the benefits should be huge. I should beat the record when towing. There should be an immediate return on the cost of the EFI and DPF Delete, and you can feel it in the tune on the pedal for sure... 400 HP

Cheers, on going with R&D in your Best Interests... More results when I have them.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tonight got back from a run to Melbourne with my brand new Silverado. Went down to Airflow snorkels to allow them to take a mold of the guard and pillar to commence the patternmaking for snorkel manufacturer. Silverado snorkels will ba available soon !!!!!!!
Fuel economy amazing!
Running in speeds on freeway - wait for it - 10.000 Litres/100km.
Home to Hunter Valley from Gympie via northern Tablelands 13.3 Litres/100km.
To Melbourne via inland back roads speed limit driving 13.9Litres/100km.
Melbourne to Bathurst again back roads 14.0 Litres/100km.
Bathurst to home via Putty (hilly windy slow) 12.6Litres/100km.
By the look of things cruise control costs about 1Litre/`100km to use.
This is all running without towing, I am keen to see what difference the BT will make when I drop it on the back.
My 100 series Cruiser went from about 11Litres/100km to just on 22 towing the van average over about 40,000KM.
Just loving it to date!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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