CURRENT TRACTION TYRE UPDATE, HOW VARIOUS BRANDS SURVIVE
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Kingy



Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve.
Can you offer any advice as to whether the damage to the tyre in the pic could be faulty tyre or load issues.
It is the right rear of our F250 towing a 21' BT on a sealed road at around 100kph. Pressure was set to70lbs cold and the load was heavy as we were heading remote for a few weeks.
Road and ambient temp were as we get up on Fnq in summer, hot.. Tyres are 3 yo with low Km's.
Look forward to any advice
Peter
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but the picture does not tell me anything... I really cannot tell, it looks bald in the picture, like it has spit off the tread from the casing..? That is a sign of overloaded.....

The important thing to look at is the Load Rating. In the past B.F. Goodrich did not make a load rating high enough to suit the Ford. Better check that out. I think the Ford required a minimum 1550 kg from memory, and at last look the BFG only went to 1500 maximum.. Not good enough, and not Legal. From Memory it was Load Rating "E" required, but you need to check that as I am tired.

Anyway, Sorry... Too tired... I cannot remember the exact figures for sure, late on Easter Monday Night.. I think it is 1550 kg Load Rating E.. Look up the Load Rating on the inside of your door, I cannot remember it right now.. I am a bit tired, have been working all weekend building cattle yard, shop, and cutting a road down by the river.. Never enough time on the Land when you live like a poor Cowboy Wink
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Devils On The Prowl



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The correct one for your Effie is a '123' load rating which equals 1550 kgs per wheel.
You should find something like this on your tyres sidewall 123/R120.

I'm running fully loaded at all times and run 76 PSI in the rear and 60 PSI in the front.

My Bridgestones are rated to take a maximum 80 PSI at COLD pressure.

Hope this helps.
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Devils On The Prowl



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your tyre picture looks to me as the tread has delaminted.

This is usually caused by excessive load on that tyre with an incorrect load rated tyre which will cause excessive heat build up.

Or, an under inflated tyre will also increase the heat build up and cause the tread to part company.

Run your Effie over the Public Weigh Bridge and get a gross weight with full fuel tanks and all the people who travel with you in there as well.

Then you'll know if your truck is overweight. (insurance problems) This is the best place to start.

Then come back and ask the forum if your not sure where to go then...
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craigh



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what size you are running?

I know the Mud Terrains are limited in high enough specs to carry high loads, but that does depend on the size.

I run BFG A/T's in a 285/65R20 on my F350 and these are rated to 1,700kg each. Max 80 PSI. But catch is you have to import them yourself.
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Kingy



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. The muddies are 285/75r16 and are rated at 1700kg (126)
I know we are slightly overweight when we go fishing, but have been running this configuration for 9 years now and this is the first time we have blown the tread of a tyre.
I bought the muddies because of the 126 rating and thought them to be fairly well bullet proof. The tyre pressure was 70lbs and we were cruising at 90 - 100 kmh.
We have been over a weigh bridge a few years ago so have adjusted our load since then but will redo the exercise when we get to a place that has a facility and do it again..
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THE WARDEN



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: TYRE Reply with quote

Kingy

You can see that it spat the tread. But why?

All the above is valid. When you say you were over wieght i take it that the truck was past its ATM and not the tyre???

Just check the date of manufacture on the tyre as well.

cheers

Wayne
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Braggy



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the other tyres for signs of delamination as well
Just in case it's not a one of

Cheers Ken
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Kingy



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne that's correct re the truck being over the gym but not over th tyre rating as that would mean more than 3.4T on the rear axle and I'm definitely not that heavy as I would be looking at the sky over the bonnet.

I will check the date though but I'm sure the KM2 muddies have only been in production for four years or there abouts.

Ken, thanks for the tip. I will go over the rest of them before heading home.

Cheers
Kingy
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Devils On The Prowl



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kingy, another thing I forgot to mention was after running your truck over the weigh bridge, don't froget that once you put the BT on the back you must also add the vans towball weight to the trucks gross. Which could be anything up to (or even over) 450 kgs. This needs to be added to your vehicles gross as well, to get the right tyre pressures etc, and also to be covered by insurance.
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Guys, Cowboy here, out with dog and horse in the west...
This is Bloke talk... and Ladies welcome if any are reading... I was very tired, but was correct in my Post above about the Load Rating on the Full Import trucks.. Load Rating "E"

I just looked at my Dodge Cummins this morning, and took a picture of it.. My R&D Fords and Silverados were the same. The LT is Light Truck, but the important bit is the "E" on the end. You have to match that. I am out west past Warwick right now on Gateway Wireless, so I can't look up the corresponding Load Rating here but anyway mine is typical of all the Full Imports: LT235/80R17E. Now, that E is the American and some International Load Rating method, not widely recognized here but it is adhered to. Look at that tyre size (minimum) on the inside of the door well on the Passenger side that used to be Drivers Side... You need that corresponding Load Rating "E" or you are providing a loophole for your Insurance in the event of a major claim resulting from a blowout. Check with your Tyre Man, he should know.

From memory it is greater than the 1550 kg or 123 Rating you see on some other vehicles like the Toyotas. I am out Bush or I would look it up for you. Anyway, the Insurance Legal is the Load Rating E, and its translation here. I think the corresponding Load rating here for the Japanese vehicles and tyres is 123 or 127. I cannot remember from the charts but am pretty sure from memory..

Owners: Please be careful about this. If a total tyre failure results in a serious wreck, and you are overloaded, it could result in your Insurance Company refusing coverage as "Illegal Tow Vehicle" voids your Policy..

Kind regards, on the Road Ranger... Trying to look after you out there Wink


Last edited by Bushtracker on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Devils On The Prowl



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just checked my tyre placard F250 2005.

The front axel load 2381 kgs (divided by 2 tyres = min load rating each tyre 1190 kgs)

The rear axel load 2817 kgs (divided by 2 tyres = min load rating each tyre 1408 kgs)

So if you run a tyre with a load rating of '123/120R' The 123 =1550 kgs for each tyre. Max axle load 3100 kgs.
The 120R = the max speed of 170 km/h

From what I can find out about an 'E' rating is, that tyre is a 10 ply

So, I feel that my 123 load rating is enough for what I'm doing at the moment.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright Friends, here is the science of this whole load rating thing... There are different scales, Euro, American, Japanese... Here are the

This whole load rating thing is way off the charts... For instance a Owner "The Warden" has said that the "E" rating is ply oriented, and as a rating system he is correct. However, that does not mean it has ten plys..
European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation (ETRTO) Are trying to make the ratings Universal, but in truth they say:

"Today's load range/ply ratings do not count the actual number of body ply layers used to make up the tire's internal structure, but indicate an equivalent strength compared to early bias ply tires. Most radial passenger tires have one or two body plies, and light truck tires, even those with heavy-duty ratings (10-, 12- or 14-ply rated), actually have only two or three fabric plies, or one steel body ply.

In all cases, when changing tire sizes or converting from one type of size to another, it is important to confirm that the Load Index in the tire's Service Description of the new tire is equal to or greater than the Load Index of the original tire and/or that the new tire’s rated load capacity is sufficient to carry the vehicle's Gross Axle Weight Ratings."


To get technical, they also say it is PSI to get the acheived ratings that is important, and they say: There is a common misconception that there is a specific equivalence between a tire's Load Range (or ply rating) and the inflation pressure at which it achieves its maximum load.[8] In reality, tires of the same Load Index may require dramatically different pressures to achieve their published load ratings.

Tyre Load Definitions says:
Identification

The recommended load rating for a vehicle's tires can be found in its owner's manual. It is also normally affixed to a sticker located on one of the vehicle's door jams. If you are replacing tires supplied with the vehicle from the manufacturer, the load rating written on the tires is an appropriate guide.

Tires have different load ratings depending on the inflation pressure of the tire. For example, a tire may have a higher load rating when inflated to 38psi than when inflated to 32psi. Always ensure that the desired load rating can be obtained at the vehicle manufacturer's suggested tire inflation pressure.

Truck Tires
Car tires have the load rating expressed in numbers. Truck and light-duty tires have the load rating expressed as a letter of the alphabet in ascending order. Therefore, a tire with a "D" load rating would be able to withstand significantly more weight at a given air pressure than an "A" rated tire.

Load Index
The load index is a number that corresponds to the physical load-handling weight of a tire in kilograms or pounds. The load index can be used as a cross reference to find the weight in pounds or kilos. For example, a load index of 105 corresponds to 2,039 pounds or 925 kilograms. This chart is found inside the vehicle's door jams and is available in tire replacement shops.

Now in the E Rated tyres, corresponding to the full Import American trucks, your Tyre Supplier should have the charts.. "E" is a rating system corresponding to weight.. Some call it ply, but per above it is weight...

Now as far as the E Rating, it appears that the corresponding weight of rear Axle loading, is posted by the different Manufacturers.. For instance BF Goodrich now says this tyre that meets Load Rating E:

LT285/75R16, All-Terrain T/A KO Tire by BFGoodrichLT285/75R16
Raised White Letters
Overall Diameter = 32.8
Load Range = E
Max Load = 3750lbs.

This exceeds the 123 Designator on Japanese tyres that is 1550 kg for load rating (on Japanese tyres) 1550 kg minimum that is 3417 lbs.. So in this case the tyre above exceeds the 123 designator that is on some vehicles like older Toyotas...

I know it is all confusing, as the different Manufacturers use different systems, but it corresponds to what the rating tag MINIMUMS are on each vehicle inside the door well on our Passenger side for Full Imports, Drivers side for Japanese vehicle. Please adhere to that.. Note, as a minimum weight carrying capacity at a rated tyre pressure.

Please consult with your Tyre Supplier, and see it in print before you buy.!!

Kind regards, lone Ranger
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Intrepid Travellers



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Tyre selection for the tow vehicle Reply with quote

[quote="Bushtracker"]NEWS FROM THE BATTLEFRONT... This is no doubt a "Game Changer"

18" D-697 are on HERE, this may be the answer for the 2012 VX and Saharas....

Steve

Have you any update on your R&D on tyres for the tow vehicle. I have a 2012 VX and am considering going to a more aggressive tread pattern that will better handle clay and black soils

Is the 18" D-697 your preferred tyre?.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes,
There is nothing I have seen that competes in 18"... It is quiet, moderate almost All Terrain traction, and massive steel under the tread..

Coopers sing the song, but the track record for vehicles over 3 ton has been chipping and severe wear. While they say they have changed their formulae, I have heard that before as well. Also, at last look their comparable STT did not fit up into the tyre storage area on a 200 Series.

The D Series is really the only Bridgestone we like, but built specially for the Outback and I would say it has been a raging success. Really, in ten years of using them on a variety of vans and tow vehicles, I have even never had a flat.



Theses are sitting on my desk right now, the top one is a BF Goodrich All Terrain, the bottom one is the D Series... The steel difference is double as thick, so extreme you can feel it in the stiffness of the tread itself..

Really, nothing competes with the D-697 so far, and like I say, I personally have never even had a flat with the D-693, 694, or now the 697. But don't get them, instead buy my 18" Grandtreks at half price.. Laughing Laughing Laughing

On the road Ranger
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mattandlana



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:43 am    Post subject: Any 2015 updates? Reply with quote

Hi Steve, thanks for the ongoing R&D on our behalf.

What's your current thinking on the best tyre for the US utes? Our 2014 Ram takes LT275/70R18s. What have you been putting on yours?

Cheers
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had SCD locate me a set of original tyres, on the original chrome trimmed mags, on Ebay and bring them here for me in the bed of a truck to convert. So I have a spare set, the stock mags would be worth what I paid for the lot.

New tyres and stock mags shipped here in the bed of a Dodge were under $2000... Just an idea for you, the truck enthusiasts are famous for pulling off the stock mag wheels and tyres and going monster tyres in America, so sometimes there is plenty of stock available. Other than that, you at least have to stay with the American "E" rating of higher load capacity, Wranglers and the like...

Kind regards, Steven Gibbs, "Rig Junkie" (Truck Enthusiast)
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